Episode 34: What a Beauty Editor Looks for in a Product and Pitch with Allure Digital Editor Jihan Forbes
Beauty editors are a tough crowd to please. They possess in-depth knowledge of the industry and trends, so impressing them can be quite difficult. That's why when you do get their attention (which is much harder than you'd think), you better have your game face on.
People that work in the beauty industry are incredibly visual. As beauty editors, they will see thousands of products a year, so you would expect that their eyes grow tired and their standards become a bit high. You need to tick all their boxes, or you won't even be in the running for the editor's attention.
This is where the art of the pitch comes in. Not an easy task, but if you want to land the editor's attention, you have to be creative and put in a great package. It's also a delicate balance between explaining your product or service in the most concise way possible and leaving room for a long conversation.
It's not the time to get into the nitty-gritty of your product. Instead, you want to focus on building connections and getting their curiosity piqued. If you can do that, they're more likely to hear more.
Also, your brand story is a key part of this conversation. It sets the scene and helps to inform their decision. You want to paint a picture of yourself and what your brand is all about without being too promotional. This is your opportunity to shine, so make it worth the editor's time!
To crack the code of beauty pitches, Jihan Forbes, Allure's digital editor, offers up a few suggestions for getting your product or service across in the best way possible.
“There are a lot of beauty products, there are a lot of brands and they're all making the same stuff. You got to make it unique. You don't have to reinvent the wheel. You just need to put some rims on it.”
-Jihan Forbes
Jihan Forbes is a staff editor for Allure.com. A Bronx-born fashion and beauty journalist with over 10 years of experience, Jihan previously held roles at Yahoo! Style and The Fashion Spot. Her work exploring style and beauty has been published by outlets like Fashionista and Elle.
If you want your pitch to reel in the beauty editors and make them want to know more, this episode is a must-watch!
Topics We Cover in This Episode:
Why editors don't answer your emails
How to make your pitch more compelling
What not to do in your pitch
How to use relevant content to give editors confidence in your story
The importance of packaging in branding
If you want to land your first feature for free without any connections, I want to invite you to watch my PR Secrets Masterclass where I reveal the exact methods thousands of bootstrapping small businesses use to hack their own PR and go from unknown to being a credible and sought-after industry expert. Register now at www.gloriachou.com/masterclass.
Resources Mentioned:
Follow Jihan on Instagram - @itsjihanm
Find out more about Jihan - Jihan Forbes
Additional Resources:
Join the Small Biz PR Pros FB group
Listen On Your Favorite Podcast Platform
Follow & Review on Apple Podcasts
Are you following my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today so you don’t miss any future episodes!
I would also appreciate it if you would leave me a review! Reviews help me make sure I am providing the content that you need! Plus, you will be entered to WIN a 1:1 pitch writing session with me where I will help you find your press-worthy angle! Click here to review, select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review”.
Here’s a glance at this episode…
[20:39] There are a lot of beauty products, there are a lot of brands, and they're all making the same stuff. You got to make it unique. You don't have to reinvent the wheel. You just need to put some rims on it.
[24:01] Give me the elevator pitch, give me the headline, give me the stuff that’s the most important stuff you know is going to be interesting so that I can be like, okay, maybe I can do something with this. Because you never know. Sometimes the answer is no. Sometimes the answer is we'll see. And sometimes, the answer is let's do something together.
[36:04] Don't be afraid to send it to a couple of editors, like that's fine. Just make sure that when you're following up, you're not like bombarding people, because then they'll just ignore it.
[40:28] So if you're noticing that a publication is doing a lot of stories based on the content they found in other places, maybe it's worth it to get on that platform.
-
Jihan Forbes 00:00
Story and packaging are very important. I'm not gonna lie to you, there are brands that these aren't people that are like established, you know, brands, these are young brands. And I've gotten their product tried them and been like, you know, maybe this isn't for me, but am. That packaging is gorgeous.
Gloria Chou 00:25
All right, everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Small Business pure podcast, I am so thrilled to have Ji Han Forbes, she is a fashion and beauty writer. She is an editor for all things digital at a lower, and she has been working over 10 years in journalism. So welcome to the show.
Jihan Forbes 00:43
Hi, thank you so much for having me today.
Gloria Chou 00:47
Now we have so many founders in our community, who actually are just dying to get into a lore and to be in a product Roundup. Right. And since you focus on beauty and fashion, why don't you just tell us a little bit about what you cover and what kind of things you're really interested in writing about right now.
Jihan Forbes 01:04
Sure. So as far as beauty right now, I cover like a wide range of stuff. I talk about makeup, I talk about hair Broto. I talk about skincare, I'll talk about, you know, crystals, healing crystals, you know, anything within the beauty and wellness, kind of Pantheon, I cover, I work a lot on features, which is really fun. So I'm able to do things like take beauty products that we think about and just kind of blow out like what they mean to us in terms of like our culture in terms of like people's religion, telling other people's stories. What I'm very much interested is how beauty and culture collide. And you know how that happens. And also with a little bit of business, I also talk, I also do some editing stories about beauty businesses as well. So it's a wide range of topics and like, very all encompassing.
Gloria Chou 02:05
So I mean, there are so many questions to ask you because I can only imagine what a day in the life is like for you. You have people PR people, you have founders just shoving product down your throat and saying, you use me and feature me so can you give us an insight into like what your inbox looks like, like how many pitches do you get samples, all of it?
Jihan Forbes 02:24
A lot. Um, if I so I like to do like a sweep of all my emails, I maybe get like something in between, like, 200 emails a day? Yeah, 200 a day, I'll clear out all my emails. And then like, the minute I get down to zero, I get another one. So it's really just like, yeah, every every time if I go, so there are days also where I'm doing a lot of writing and editing. And I you know, I'm only able to go through a couple emails, like stuff that's, you know, really pertinent. And then I gotta leave the rest for later. And if that happens, if it's a really busy week, by the end of the week, I could have like 1000 emails, and then I have to like go through all of them. It's a lot of email.
Gloria Chou 03:11
It's a It's fierce competition for your attention. That's for sure. So why don't you tell us from the person who's actually the decider, the geek, the gatekeeper, who's who makes the cut from a very high level, like, what kind of pitches are immediately like? Nope,
Jihan Forbes 03:25
well, it depends. And it depends on what you're pitching as far as like if we're just talking about trying products, because that's what we're here to talk about anyway. For me, there's a number of things that go into piquing my interest and it's not you don't necessarily have to be with an agency, but what piques my interest is number one, if, like, if it's a product that like literally I've, you know, I'm just like, Oh, what's this, like, this sounds so new, cool and innovative, that will, that will pique my interest, if it is, you know, a product that if it's from a company that has a really cool story, that also might be something interesting, if you know, it's, like part of a old tradition from 1000s of years ago, and we're bringing it modernizing it for now. That is something that's also interesting, right? You know, also if it's something that is very buzzy right now, you know, if it's, you know, say, Well, I our Vedic stuff is always in, but um, you know, if there was like a new kind of, you know, beauty trend that we're seeing, and we're seeing products that are related to it, that might also be interesting. So, it depends on all those things, and also depends on what I'm working on. Like, you know, you may have launched a new toothpaste, and I may have just finished a story about toothpaste and you know, I've just tried 10 toothpastes to write about and now I'm just like, My two Play Store is done. Uh, moving on. So it's a lot of different factors that go into, I think choosing products the future.
Gloria Chou 05:08
Yeah. And I also think it's kind of like, right place at the right time, because we don't know what your editorial calendar is, I have no idea what you're writing on. So I know you touched upon doing research, right? Don't pitch something that you've already covered. What are some of the other things that like a bootstrapping founder with no resources can do to set themselves up to success, so that they can maybe get on your radar and get a response from you?
Jihan Forbes 05:30
I think one thing is like looking at what's really going on, you know, if there is, you know, say, I don't know, Rihanna wore a certain glitter on her eye that no one has ever seen before. But you were already making that glitter. That might be something that I think I could use, especially if it's timely, like also think of timeliness. Right? So if that's something timely right, say I'm writing a story on Rihanna is glitter. I, you're like, hold on, didn't Rihanna just wear that? Let me just email somebody. And if something is going on, that relates, they might pick it up, you know, so that that is something that I think a lot of people need to think about. And I think it's hard to, because that's almost like thinking like an editor, right? Because you got to really just be like, Okay, what's going on now? And how can I make it a story. And when you're pitching your products, essentially, a lot of times you're pitching to as possible, like stories or possible things to incorporate into stories. So it's very much like trying to have like, very much have to have that kind of mindset. And that can be hard. It's not something you're familiar with, because like, you think about people who even work in magazines, like more junior people, they're developing that kind of mindset, like even they're doing it, and they're in the thick of it. So I imagine that it would be much more difficult for somebody who's a brand owner, but it's something that you kind of have to try, you know,
Gloria Chou 07:00
yeah, well, 100% because being able to get featured, especially if you're a bootstrapping founder, the confidence that it gives them to be like, I'm here I am seeing I see it all the time with my PR, sir pack members, and you just validated it, too. So you touched upon timeliness, which is something I teach as well. So one way is to ride on the coattails of something else, right, maybe mentioned Rihanna, what about seasonality? So like, what season we're in, like, right now we're recording this? What about a story with like, spring summer? You know, beauty? Is that something that'd be interesting to
Jihan Forbes 07:30
you? Yeah, um, if it's new, and depending on what I'm talking about, as well. It could be, you know, there. And yeah, I think like seasonality is also good. But it's also not a guarantee, I think, obviously, people do seasonal stories. But I think that we get a lot of those pitches, like, I'm telling you once, what is it November, December, we're getting our wall, we start getting, I start getting gift guide emails in July. So yeah, I started getting gift guide emails in July. Well, that's because print is usually working on. I'm on digital. So we're a little bit like, it's a little bit of a shorter lead most of the time. But I'm getting, I'm always getting seasonal stuff. And I'm going to use, you know, some of the stuff I'm going to use. But like I think even seasonality is sometimes not enough for me. Because, and I and this is also something to keep note, like when you're pitching, like think about which editor you're pitching and what they do, like you kind of have to learn what the roles really are. So someone who so I don't, I will do a commerce story. So those are those kinds of shopping stories where it's like 10, you know, shea butter based products to make your skin glow. Right, though those kinds of stories where we're like, here's this product, here's this product, here's this product. That is something that like a commerce editor would do more of, I do a lot more like I work across the board, but I do a lot of features. So for me if I'm going to use your product in a story, like okay, you have a shea butter product, right? For me, I'm not thinking okay, let me use it in this 10 shea butter story for me. I'm like, Okay, I tried to shea butter. What am I doing that relates to shea butter? Am I working on a new ingredient explainer? Am I working on? You know, like, here's my personal body care routine, is the story what I did, you know, with this weekend, you know, whatever. So for me, it's like, I kind of have more to adapt to that. So if you are going to pitch these in all in a seasonal capacity, make sure you're pitching to the editor is doing mostly commerce stories. I often get you know those kinds of seasonal things, and I will pass it over to commerce and like, let people know that I have, there are some commerce stories that I've worked on I, I know fragrance pretty well. So I will do those kinds of things from time to time. So it really does depend a lot on the editor, too.
Gloria Chou 10:15
I love that. So, so seasonality is important, but obviously not a guarantee doing your research is really important. What are some of the other things like if you were to just imagine a perfect pitch that came into your inbox? And you're like, oh, yeah, I like that one, like, what other things would I have in it? Maybe subject line or attachments? Or no attachments? Or what is the tone? Well, that's
Jihan Forbes 10:35
a pet? Well, it depends on what it is, you can have attachments, it's very helpful to have like a, like a little one sheeter on what your product is, what's in it, how much it costs, you know, all the flowery language that you might want to put behind it, you know, in describing it, that's very important. And, you know, a cool subject, subject line is also catchy. But the way I check my emails, personally, is I'm running through my emails anyway. So the headline doesn't necessarily like a catchy, like, I'm gonna open the email, I'm opening emails that is getting opened, regardless, maybe some other editors might kind of just be like, I'm just going to open whatever has a catchy title. But I personally can't go off of that. Because I've open there's been some titles on me that I've seen in my emails, and then I open and I'm just like, Okay, this is what all that hullabaloo was about, like, please. Next, you know.
Gloria Chou 11:38
So you do read all of your emails, and even though you don't respond to most of them, you are you're actually going through your inbox and reading, I go
Jihan Forbes 11:45
through every email, I don't read them all, I have to like, skim that, because I'm not reading 200 emails. But I'll skim them, like if the you know, obviously, like titles make a difference. But as like, I'm not. If your title is catchy, and I still can't do anything with the product, then. You know, so it has the most important thing is relevancy? And, yeah, that I think it's hard for brand owners to know, because you don't know what I'm doing. And you know, and I'm not going to tell ever give everyone a copy of my, you know, airtable schedule, because that would be ridiculous. So, unfortunately, you know, on on a business owner side, it's a lot, it's a guessing game, right? It's a lot of chance. But that's just how it is. Because, you know, I will tell you, even if you are with an agency, okay, they're emailing editors about that, that doesn't necessarily make you more likely to get featured, you could get 1000 emails from an agency, and you know, they can send out 1000 emails about your product. And then I can just be like, All right. I'm still, like, there's still nothing that I can do with this right now. So what do you what do you want from me? So that that really adds a factor. And, you know, I think, also, I mean, it's hard to create relationships with editors and random people, because like, every people are in my DM, isn't that. But if that's an opportunity that you have, and you are able, I mean, that takes a lot of like, social intelligence and a lot of different, you know, stuff. But hey, if you're a charismatic person, and you run into some editor, and you're like, Hey, girl, like, I saw you here, and they're, like, what's good? Do you, you know, but I really think what's gonna catch my eye is if it's relevant to me now, or if it's just something that I is like, something that I'm passionate about, you know, and those things are like, very personal. And that's not something that you are automatically going to know as a brand owner.
Gloria Chou 14:04
Yeah, but I think as long as you follow it, like, you know, everyone, turn on your, you know, social media, like follow what she's writing, that's really step one, Nothing's worse than receiving a pitch. And you're like, I don't even write about this. Right. So I'm glad you validated that. You also said that, just because someone is pitching from an agency, it doesn't impress you more if someone's like, I am representing so and so. So do you care if someone speaks in the first person or acts like their assistant, does that matter? I don't, it doesn't
Jihan Forbes 14:31
really matter to me. And you know what, like, there are brand owners that I have been, well, there's one particular brand owner that I'm thinking about granted his, their journey was a little bit different, because they already kind of were in the beauty industry, but they had started their own brands. And this person emails me, you know, it's not the PR agency. It's this person. And I have a personal relationship with with that person. So I'm just like, hey, you know what's up? Like I got you, like, send it over all of that, and that person does not have an agency, you know, because that person who built those relationships, maybe one day, they'll be with an agency. But the reason I think they've been able to build up their brand is because they had relationships with editors already. So if this person is somebody that I'm coming to as a, you know, as a reporter, and you know, you're a beauty professional, that's also something that's also really helpful. If you have a brand and you're like, you were already like a dermatologist or a chemist, or, you know, whatever, that's actually kind of, I think more that can give you I think, more of a boost, because then you have that, you know, that expertise. And then you know, if you're a dermatologist, it's a little bit more well, or a chemist, you know, I can say, well, they created this product, but they know what they're doing. You know, there's nothing wrong with kitchen, kitchen made products and nothing wrong with that. But at the end of the day, like I think a lot of people don't understand that beauty. Like, I mean, yeah, you can mix a bunch of oils in your kitchen, but like, it's not going to be the same if somebody that has an understanding of science, and formulations and like how to stabilize certain things like mama, you don't know how to stabilize vitamin C. Okay. I don't know how to stabilize vitamin C. Okay, so you're coming to me, I made this vitamin C serum in my kitchen. I'm not a chemist, I just really like carrots, that, you know, respectfully decline, you know, but that is something so having that expertise, I think does give people a boost. So if you're somebody who's like, dang, like, I'm a dermatologist I live, you know, wherever I'm making these products, you know, maybe I can, you know, email, and then you can use that as leverage, right? You're starting your product line, I'm starting this product line. I'm also available to comment, you know, on stories. So there's another place that you build a relationship, right? I might not have time, I might not have a place right now for your product. But I'm working on, you know, ingredient explainer? Can you? Can you speak to this? And that's how a good way to build relationships. But that is something that like, I mean, if you're already somebody who knows how to do that stuff, I think that
Gloria Chou 17:24
is, I think that's why following up is so important. Because, as you just said, you actually do read your emails, obviously, you're not going to respond to all of them. But once you're tasked with a certain story, do you just go back into your inbox and do a quick search? Like, how do you keep all of these pitches in your brain? Like, how does it work, you'd go back into your inbox or
Jihan Forbes 17:43
so that's the thing. Um, so what I like to do in my inbox, when I'm reading through my emails is I will say, okay, this person emailed me, I don't have a place for this right now. But, um, um, I do a lot of stories like this, let me put this in a folder and come back to this person. And you know, that has happened, I can I tell you, Oh, many times, I just go back in my email, search, dermatologist, hairstylist, try colleges, you go through, I'm like, oh, here are all these experts. I need three of them. And then I'm contacting the person. So it's very much like that. And I think it's also important to know if you don't get a response. Now, it might not necessarily be a no, it might just be let me put this to the side because I'm doing like 10 Other projects right now. Or let me put this, ooh, this sounds interesting. But I do not have a place for and this is a long something, the lines of something I wanted to pitch. But I it's not approved yet. I don't have it all fully fleshed out. But let me just save that. So I can come back to it later. So no response is not necessarily No, it's just no response. That could mean a lot.
Gloria Chou 19:05
I love how encouraging it is because you're basically saying throw your name in the hat. You never know when it's going to be called right. And you also said it's important to establish your expertise. But let's say someone doesn't have a medical degree or they don't they're not a dermatologist. What's another way they can establish authority, credibility expertise?
Jihan Forbes 19:23
Well, it depends on what like depends on what it is right? And I'm going to speak to something right now that I think I made a lot of what I hear a lot of people who I know who like start beauty brands or who want to start beauty brands. I know a lot start in the home a lot start in the kitchen. And one thing I think is very important. Important, especially if you don't have any backing is to have that story and to have an aesthetic. Those two things I think, if you are just independent working alone It will take you very far. Because one thing is that editors like things that look pretty, because we might have to photograph them, either for a story or for our own social media, like, there are some products that I have just because they look nice. And if I want to do like, shoot some like little silly social thing, it's there. So if it looks, make sure it looks nice. And also have a cool, I think a cool story always gets me. And I think a lot of brand owners need to like really be honest with yourself. Because at the end of the day, there are a lot of beauty products, there are a lot of brands and they're all making the same stuff. somebody's telling me, oh, I just came up with this new, I don't know, this new body oil. And this body oil is something that I got inspired to make. Because you know, during the pandemic, I was in my house, and I had all these olives lying around. And I just took the oil from the olives and mixed it with, you know, some lavender essence. And now I have this wonderful revolutionary product that all my friends love, baby, there are about 1000 body oils, what like, come on, a lot of this stuff is not unique. So you got to make it unique. You don't have to reinvent the wheel, you just need to put some rims on it
Gloria Chou 21:32
I love so if it's not unique, maybe it's something about you know, like yesterday, I just interviewed someone from the starter pack Keba Lloyd and her her the reason why she got featured by herself pitching is she put in the headline real estate broker turned wellness, you know, skincare founder? So would that be something interesting, like a kind of a pivot
Jihan Forbes 21:52
if I'm working on something related? Yeah. Yeah. But definitely a story is, is I think very story and packaging are very important, I'm not gonna lie to you, there are brands that like I have, and they were kind of they're like, very young brand. Like, these aren't people that are like, established, you know, brands, these are young brands. And I've gotten their products and tried them and been like, you know, maybe this isn't for me, but am that packaging is gorgeous, I gotta put this in something because this is like, so aesthetically pleasing. And maybe if it's not for me, somebody else will like it was the packaging of people buying separate packaging all the time. So even if you have a mediocre product, maybe if you're if you just got some old putting some olive oil and lavender oil that you could get at the corner store. But that thing is in a pretty bottle, and you kind of dress it up and you got a cute little story that could attract somebody, you know, I actually had a brand that, you know, I I was once I liked their packaging, and once I heard their story that like behind it, like I was literally I was moved to tears. Because it was such a it was an in the story hit home to me because it was like very much myself and the founder had gone through a lot of like this, it was it's very moving and very special. And that will get you places, you know, like good packaging and a good story. Because at the end of the day, what are we doing but telling stories?
Gloria Chou 23:22
Yeah, that's for sure. And I think it's really about tapping into your why. But I do think that some founders make the mistake of it, the whole pitch being about their story, and then it's too long. So can you just deconstruct it for us on what is the right balance between a good story, but not going into an autobiography.
Jihan Forbes 23:40
Um, so what I like to do is just tell me the main points I don't need to know about like, your unless your grandmother, you know, childhood, whatever actually relates to the product, I don't need to hear it. And even if it does, like, keep it short, you know, give us a sense. Give me the elevator pitch, give me the headline, give me the stuff that the most important stuff that you know is going to be interesting so that I can be like, okay, maybe I can do something with this. Because you never know. And you know, sometimes the answer is no. Sometimes the answer is we'll see. And sometimes the answer is let's do something together.
Gloria Chou 24:20
Yeah. So keep it short. That's good. So what's another mental exercise before they press Send to just keep trimming it a little bit more? Like for example, I like bullet points. I think it's easier to read. And I actually tell people not to send their media kit I feel that it's a little presumptuous, I think instead to put the price where it's found and then a link, right. So is there another like tips and tricks on like just giving enough story but not being too about yourself?
Jihan Forbes 24:46
You don't want it to because at the end of the day, we want to talk about the product, right? Unless it's a brand founder story, and that's not what you're pitching initially because if I don't know your product and no one knows your product Next, you know, what's the, you know? So unless it's a it's not just it's not a brand story, but it's just like, like a dating profile, right? What are the things about you? That's gonna get somebody to be like, I'm just gonna swipe? What is it? Which way? Is it? Swipe? Right, right? Swipe right. Right, as I'm choosing you swipe right on, like, think of it like that, like, what are you putting in your dating profile that like, you want to show your best? But you also want to keep it brief, because ain't nobody gonna read all that? So I'd say think of it as writing it, something like that.
Gloria Chou 25:34
Yeah, I love that maybe maybe like, what about if they've won an award for it? Or if it's used by a celebrity or something of that help?
Jihan Forbes 25:42
That's, that's great. And you know, and if it's a celebrity that you notice, oh, we're using a lot. You know, we're talking a lot about Bella Hadid and Bella Hadid was just lighting your candle. That's it. That's something that you can pitch. And maybe I have a candle story coming up. So and then there it is. There's the inclusion. I'm like, Oh, I was looking for candles. This is one Bella Hadid. Like, I already know the blurb. And I can say in the story, Bella Hadid likes this candle. Yeah.
Gloria Chou 26:14
So what are they don't know Bella Hadid? Right, let's say they're just completely just starting out. What about using like a survey? Or like data points, like proprietary data? Does that help?
Jihan Forbes 26:24
Not? For me? I'm not necessarily. I mean, if it helps you figure out, like, who to market to and who to hit up and who your customer is, and all of that. That's cool. For me, it's not really a factor
Gloria Chou 26:40
for beauty. Right? So So what about survey like, if you surveyed users, and there's like a testimonials like would that help give some credibility,
Jihan Forbes 26:48
perhaps, but I still got to use it. And you also you can even go off testimonials we've had actually in the beauty industry, if you scandals, of you know, brands, having you know, people, right, from the brands write their testimonials. And you know, it doesn't mean the products weren't bad. Because the it's I think it's happened with a couple months. And it was all brands that I like and are still super popular. So you can never really tell it. You don't know necessarily with reviews, I think I have to be I have to use the product. And even if the reviews are great, if I use it, and I don't like it, I'm not going to feature it because it didn't work for me. Maybe somebody else will, might work for someone else on staff, which is one thing I like to do. You know, if there's something that really doesn't work for me, but I can because you know, as I have to think of the reader, right? So if I have something that I'm like this, it's a no from me, but it's going to be a yes, for a lot of y'all, I will still feature it, or I'll give it to somebody else or have them try it. And if they like it, then they can speak to it. You know why they like it? Which I might be able to understand why they like it, but I'm not experiencing the life part. So let someone who likes it write about it, you know?
Gloria Chou 28:06
Yeah, I like that, you know, and so especially for what you do, it's so much about trying and testing it. And that's where you get your credibility from. So my next question is, how do people even write in the email about like, sending you samples in a way that is not a turn off and not too pushy?
Jihan Forbes 28:21
Um, I think maybe one or two emails is fine. You can say I would love to send samples for your consideration. You don't have to send five follow up emails, because I saw your first one most likely, I might not have responded might because sometimes a lot of time follow up emails, like I do need them because I don't have time to address certain things. And maybe I'm just scrolling so fast that I miss some stuff. But no more than three times baby. And yeah, you know, like, because then it's just too and I will tell you people have gotten themselves blocked for being too persistent. And it by a lot of editors across the magazine, there are folks that are blocked. So you know, you don't want to be too extra. You do want to reach out also on social media reaching out to me because I'll get a lot of pitches in my DMs and most of them I ignore because I say email, my email in my you know, just read that read the social media, a lot of editors will say you know, I prefer email or I take DMS or email me Don't email me here email me there and I will see see what it is. So yeah, there's also that and sometimes stuff like you know, there's multiple editors at magazines, and there are stuff that I hadn't tried and had been pitched so many times that I literally did not have time to do them. And then another editor that had time to try it it in liked it. And then there they are, you know, in it. And since the other editor tried it and liked it, I'm like, Hey, girl, like, I got this too. Should I use it? It's been sitting here because I haven't had time to use it. Like, get it, you know?
Gloria Chou 30:16
That's awesome. So what if what if someone has a very expensive, expensive product and they can't ship out a full sample? What What would you do instead?
Jihan Forbes 30:25
I love the mini mini minis travels, I love I love minis. There's something by you know, I like full size of love. But I don't have the space. You know, I really, I have to say sample sizes, many sizes, travel sizes have been like I've just become so in love with them. Because they don't take up as much space, I can still try the product. And if I like it, I can bring it with me when I travel, you know. So that's also been fun, but I think it depends on also the travel size or like, whatever what size you're sending also depends on what it is. So like, you know, sometimes that travel size conditioner you might need to send to because somebody has taken curly hair, you know, and might need more conditioner. So it depends, but many travel sizes are great. I take lab samples of stuff. I actually, I tested. I've written so many stories that you know, you see the packaging on the launch. That's not how I looked when I got it because I got the lab sample. And I'm happy with that. And you know, it's the same thing. So definitely look into I guess when you're producing like making stuff in slightly smaller sizes.
Gloria Chou 31:49
Yeah, I love that such such good tips. I want to shift to gift guides and product roundups. Right. So like something that's related, as you said, there are people who are so eager pitching you Christmas gift guides in July, you said, so what is the right cadence? What is the right timeframe, let's say I want to pitch something for Mother's Day.
Jihan Forbes 32:08
Well, Mother's Day is coming up. So right now would be a good time for Mother's Day pitches. If you're in again, if you're doing seasonal stuff, commerce is going to be like is going to be faster. And also, it depends on what part of leg of the publication you're the editor you're contacting is working on. So I'm on digital. So you're gonna email me Mother's Day stuff now, maybe at the end of February. Right? If I'm on print, you emailed me about Mother's Day stuff a couple months ago, because of the cadence of print. That's why, you know, print editors are getting gift guide suggestions in July and August. Because they're that's what they're working on me. July and August. I'm working on summer stuff and beginning of fall stuff. If that depending on what part of August it's in if it's early August, probably not. But late August, mid late August, I'm working on, you know, fall stuff. So definitely, it's a lot, you have to do a lot of your own research and it sucks. But that's the job, right? I have to do my research when I'm writing a story. So you know, it's part of, I think being a business owner.
Gloria Chou 33:30
Yeah, and it's such a worthy exercise, I mean, to be able to be, for example, you know, tested by you who is an editor, I look so much better than buying an ad and the customer seeing like advertising. So that's what I mean, if it was easy, anyone would do it. My next question is people get so hung up about, oh, I'm pitching to more than one person at an outlet. What do you have to say to that? Because they you know, like, how do they know what's crossing the line? And what's just sending another pitch?
Jihan Forbes 33:56
Well, we're all getting a lot of emails at the outlet. So I don't think it's bad to pitch more than one person at an outlet. I think it makes sense. Because like, people are working on different things, and you might email me for something that you would like, published sooner. And I'm just like, well, baby, I'm not working on that. You know, and but maybe my colleague is, you know, so people are working on different things. So it is, I think worth it to send to a couple different editors. But of course, like understand and I that there are a lot it's impossible for us to reply to every email. And actually, if I do reply and actually tried that, last summer, I did this thing where I was like, I got all these PRs, there's some stuff I didn't respond because I like whatever. But I was like, I'm gonna do this thing where I respond to the email and I say, Hey, I've acknowledged that I've seen your email, if it's a fit, it's a fit. If it's not if it's not, and then that you know, isn't particularly helpful. either, because then it becomes, while I have you here are 10 Other things that I want to pitch you and I'm like, Bro I just was responding to the one thing. And now I have to think of other like, address all this other stuff. So like really think about that and also know that your thing isn't the only thing we're working on. Like, you know, we barely have time, sometimes I barely have time to do the stuff that I have to do in a day. So if you're not getting a response, it's like, well, you know, I've been working, I got up at, you know, 6am, I started basically working and doing like looking around for stuff to write about at 7am. It's 6pm. Now, like, I want to watch, drag race and drink a glass of wine.
Gloria Chou 35:50
So don't take it personally. So I kind of it kind of lifts the pressure off, because I feel like founders are so afraid to just press the send button. And I always say everything you want is on the other side of the send button.
Jihan Forbes 36:01
Absolutely. And yeah, don't be afraid to send to a couple of editors, like that's fine. Just make sure that when you're following up, you're not like bombarding people, because then they'll just, they'll just ignore it, you know, so be widely just had, like, there is a degree, like I said, of social intelligence that you have to consider. And not everyone has that naturally. And even the people who have that naturally, you know, might slip up and it could be a faux pas. So it can be kind of delicate, but I don't think it's impossible. Like, again, I've used products from people that I've really liked. Um, and you know, and like, if I like something, and I have a place for it, I'm going to feature
Gloria Chou 36:47
it. Yeah, yeah. And it has nothing to do with you know, that person, right? It's just, it's your personal preference. My personal preference. Yeah, exactly. So that's why everyone listening should just go and put your name on the how you You deserve it. And it's such a good exercise as a founder to do that to my next question is a lot of founders are like, well, what if I have 10? Products? How do I know which one to write in the pitch email?
Jihan Forbes 37:13
Depends on what you're pitching. Right? You know, are you pitching your newest product is the pitch email, something about is the pitch email, something timely, that is an OLED that can fit with an old product that you have, right? So you have some like little ice face globes that you've had for a little while. And you know, there's some viral Tiktok thing going on with ice facecloths it's an old product, but tick tock, literally, and that's one thing, if something's going on, on tick tock, we're all writing about it, because that that's a lot of traffic. So watch what I think that's also a good idea, watch what's going on, on tick tock. But if it like, if it's something like that, then you know, we're gonna write about it, like, pay attention to the things that are going on around you. And it's like I said, it's, it's extra work. But that's the work that we're doing daily. And if you kind of understand how, you know, our minds work, and you know how we're choosing stuff, then that's, that's an advantage for you. Yeah, yeah.
Gloria Chou 38:23
I love that. I mean, it's this is the work that's really going to be resulting in 80% of the success of their business, right? It's like the 20% is going to be the 80%. I love that. So you've given us so much to think about all the do's and don'ts, you've really lifted the veil, if you will, as opposed to, you know, to some people who shrouded in secrecy, it's not rocket science. But you you said you need to have a good packaging and a good story. But don't go overboard. Because it's not all about you, right? Is there anything that we haven't touched upon in terms of pitching do's and don'ts? Or maybe the timing, or follow ups or just kind of best practices? I
Jihan Forbes 39:00
don't think so. One thing is if someone says don't DM them, don't DM them? If you know, because they're not going to answer the DM. So unless it's someone you know, like, personally, like, if you're, I don't know, if you're my friend and you started a brand, and you want to do happy about it, you could be me, but you know, where people too, and like people have a lot of different stressors. And you know, we're living in New York City, we're living in a pandemic, we may be in, you know, a nuclear war and like, the next month, you know, there's a lot going on that you can't, you know, like, again, can't take things too personally. And, you know, you can't like our minds are all over the place, you know, so I think it's just really about being smart and very strategic when you're pitching.
Gloria Chou 39:54
Yeah, and relevancy and check, tick tock,
Jihan Forbes 39:57
and check. Tick tock. I'm telling you like Make that plays. I mean, a couple years ago, it was Instagram. But now everything is tick tock like, it's like and you and I'm sure like if you're if you read our magazines or like, well not even really magazines like websites that are based from magazines, or like any of these kinds of Lady mags on the web, half of the stories are about stuff that was on tick tock. And there's a reason because that stuff clicks, right. So if you're noticing that a publication is doing a lot of stories, based on content that they found in other places, maybe it's worth it to get on that platform, you know, and also, if you're a founder, and you have a really cool personality, and your social media savvy, or whatever, like that can also be something that's interesting, you know, as long as there's something interesting about the product interesting about you, and that melds with, you know, timing and all of that, like, I don't think you necessarily need to be with an agency to get into a publication, eventually, you might, because, you know, if you're getting into publications, and then you keep getting into them, you can't analyze stuff yourself, like, and why would you want to, you're gonna want somebody else, or maybe you do that in house. But in the beginning, you know, you gotta, you gotta just think think strategically,
Gloria Chou 41:30
what has been the most like, inspiring thing that you've helped founders accomplish by writing about them? Like, has it just, like blown up someone's business or create opportunities that really was game changing for them?
Jihan Forbes 41:41
Well, I will say a couple of founders that I've spoken to have been like, I'm not gonna lie, like you writing about us has really helped our business. And I, I just, I'm just like, oh, okay, cool. I don't know why I'm taken aback by that every time but I don't know. But like, that's pretty cool to to hear. And, especially if it's a young brand, and I love the story, and like, the products are good. And I love the founder, like, I'm the kind of person like I will ride for a brand, right? There's one particular haircare brand. That was pitched to me, and I was reading about it. And I was like, This sounds so cool. I was like, Yes, this is so different. Because the philosophy and the ethos behind the brand was so different than what a lot of people in the category were doing. It literally was just like, it very much was the opposite of what people like the mainstream. And in a way that when I looked at it, I said, this is relevant. And this is something that's needed. So I was like, This is great. I mean, it's more haircare products. It's not like you can't get them, but they were such good quality and the reason what they were created for. I was like, You know what, this makes sense. And there's a story right there. And then I, you know, spoke to the founder. And she was like so cool and smart. The packaging is right, the packaging is great. The branding is great. And I talk about that brand all the time, all the time. And I don't know, I didn't know this girl from Adam, when I first heard of her brand, but now that I know it I like everywhere I go people always ask me oh, what's your haircare brand you like, I'm like, Baby, it's bread beauty, because I loved all from top to bottom, like they had it together. And it's still one of my favorite like hair brands, I'm going to feature them, you know, they do something I want to I want the product because I know, like, like I got like I it hit me when I got you know, when I got that pitch. And when you think about it, beauty and also fashion, that's somebody who's also very emotional, you know, you can connect to an editor on that level, you're going to be more open, you know, I've you know, gotten to know founders, you know, they might have they might have had a you know, prize like it's like okay, another skincare brand. But then I talked to the founder I talked about like I talked about the story in the ethos behind the brand, what they're doing behind the scenes because it's more than just like making products you know, you're talking like while we're trying to you know, create economic opportunity for people in this region. And this and this and that is what we're doing. I'm like yeah, that's so cool. And these products are dope um, this is something worth featuring because besides it being a good product, there's also behind it something so powerful and something that I want to put out you know, put out into the world and share with everyone
Gloria Chou 44:52
I love that so if you definitely if you have a charitable or give back component definitely mentioned that right
Jihan Forbes 44:58
for sure. And it's obviously depends on To give that component because there's, you know, sometimes these charitable, you know, situations are charitable only to the people that don't need the charity. But you know, if there's that aspect, you know, like, I'm, you know, my brand employs women from, you know, this region of the world who have been making this hair oil for 4000 years. And now, you know, we've created, you know, this product, and they're the ones still making it and we've empowered them economically. And here's what it is. And even if the story isn't necessarily about the product, maybe then an editor is like, well, I want to go see, I want to go meet these women. I want to go do this, like, what can I do with this? So it's a lot of different things that you can latch on to for a story.
Gloria Chou 45:57
Yeah, and I love that it's not pay to play like you're not taking a commission, they're not paying you journalism is not dead. The integrity is still very much there.
Jihan Forbes 46:06
No, I don't look, if you're gonna, if you're gonna pay me, it's going to be an ad. And it's going to be noted, cuz I don't I don't do that, that kind of No. And yeah, like, like, if you're gonna pay to play, then it's, then it's an advertisement. And then that that needs to be distinctly said, because I don't think it's right, to kind of have that kind of subliminal shape now. And I'm very much about, you know, we live in a capitalist society, we were doing what we can, and I very much like empowering smaller business owners, people that are just trying to make it man, because it is hard out here. It is, like, it's ridiculous. And it's unfair, really, to all of us that we have to work this hard, you know, to survive. So I always have very much in my heart, you know, for the people that are trying to come up and build their businesses. I'm like, You know what, like, I'm, I'm with you. And if I'm connecting to you, let me see what I could do. I might be awesome. And I might not. But I'm gonna try.
Gloria Chou 47:08
Thank you so much for empowering and elevating these voices, because that's exactly what I do as well. And that's why I actually found you. Because I felt like we're so aligned. So while I have you here, and I'm putting you on the spot. But as you know, my my community is 90% Women of Color founders. And a lot of them are like, oh, I want to pitch I want to pitch to her right now. What are some of the things that you're looking to cover? Maybe there's a fit, and hopefully they have taken what really good notes on the things you said to do and don't but can you give us like, maybe something that you're excited to write about recently,
Jihan Forbes 47:41
there's a lot of while I've been doing a lot of I think, like philosophical reflecting and like, like, like, thinking about beauty on a larger scale, I've been very interested in, I think, especially women of color as a black woman in particular. And a black person, that's whose family has been on this side of the world, like, for hundreds of years. One thing that I like to look for is those brands that tap into tradition, like lack traditions, especially African traditions, in an authentic way. I'm not talking about, you know, you're just some random lady on like, you know, Instagram who is selling, you know, candles and calling your herself of goo Hara, you know, there has to be some kind of substance, like, come on, but I love those kinds of things, because, and I think for me, that kind of stuff connects to me on an emotional level, because I'm just like, so many of our traditions have, you know, we've had to fight to be able to maintain them. And when I see people going back to those and drawing from those and creating from those, that really inspires me, and then sometimes there's another story behind that, you know, and there's like a deeper thing that's just like, so interesting, that I might want to cover so I think about those things a lot. But yeah, definitely those kinds of traditions, and even granted, I'm black, so obviously I'm going to be I'm going to, you know, be drawn to like Afro tradition, but like a lot of like traditional like, especially South Asian kind of stuff like that stuff is so cool to me to like learn about, you know, these beauty traditions that have been passed down that I might not have heard of, but now here you are creating, you know, creating something. There's this one brand that actually everyone at a war is like freaking out like they love coffee. And they've got some kind of like Kajal liners and it started by a South Asian woman. And she started with these Kajal liners that are just like so buttery and go on so well and everyone uses like, everyone on staff is like we love it. We love it, we love it. And I've tried the sub I liked the the eyeliners. I have some action guide over there. Um, but I also love the story. I'm just like, yes, like, of course, you're going to make a modern Kajal. This is something that you know, Coachella has worn for 1000s of years. And they were telling the story in a unique way. The branding, again, was onpoint. And the product, the quality of the product was on point. So there's all of those things, invest in a good graphic designer and someone who knows aesthetics.
Gloria Chou 50:45
You know, you mentioned about South Asian and our Veda and we actually have three or four PR Sarah pack members who actually do our Vedic wellness thing. So I'm going to connect with you after that, after our conversation, how can people get into your world? I know you said like no DMS, but how can they follow what you're writing and support you? Well, I'm
Jihan Forbes 51:03
on social media, and I have my work II like if you're talking about something work related. I have my work email, and I read I look through all my emails is, as I'm sure many of you are, I'm looking through that I might not respond. But I trust me, I saw it. So that like if it's if it's a lower business, then email me if you just want to say hi, because you like my dress. I love DMS that are compliments about how pretty and stylish I am. Yeah.
Gloria Chou 51:43
I'm gonna send you one right now. Thank you so much for your time you have given us not only actionable tips, but your energy is so infectious. So thank you so much for being on here.
Jihan Forbes 51:53
Thank you, and thank you for having me. Like, you know, I really, like we we got to keep our money like in our communities. And I really think that, you know, with the economic climate that we have now, it's so unfair to regular people. And you know, this is especially in the United States, like we talk about, oh, small businesses, the backbone of our country, but we do nothing for small businesses. In fact, we punish small businesses for existing and reward big businesses for swallowing everyone up. So you know, I really, I, I'm so glad to be on here and to like, hopefully be helpful to somebody because we gotta get, you know, I want to see more people thrive, especially women, and especially women of color.
Gloria Chou 52:39
Yes, no, on that note, it's been such a pleasure and I cannot wait to follow your journey and see who makes the cut.
Jihan Forbes 53:12
Of course, thank you so much. This was so awesome.
Gloria Chou 52:14
Hey, small business hero. Did you know that you can get featured for free on outlets like Forbes, The New York Times, Marie Claire Popsugar, and so many more, even if you're not yet launched? Or if you don't have any connection? That's right. That's why I invite you to watch my PR Secrets masterclass, where I reveal the exact methods 1000s of bootstrapping small businesses use to hack their own PR and go from unknown to being a credible and sought after industry expert. Now if you want to land your first press feature, get on a podcast, secure a VIP speaking gig or just reach out to that very intimidating editor. This class will show you exactly how to do it. Register now at Gloria Chou pr.com/masterclass. That's Gloria Chou c-h-o-u pr.com/masterclass. So you can get featured in 30 days without spending a penny on ads or agencies. Best of all, this is completely free. So get in there and let's get you featured.