Episode 35: How to Get Publicity for Your Book and Write for a Publication with Entrepreneur and Book Publishing Expert Angela Engel
Writing your dream book is possible! Publishing that book may be challenging, but it is not entirely out of reach. However, getting your book noticed and purchased by the public is an entirely different story.
There are far better ways to publicize your book than displaying your manuscript on the bookstore’s shelf and hoping people will notice, purchase, and read your work.
Before you formalize any deal with your book publisher or fully tread on the traditional publication path, you may want to first leverage the power of publicity.
You may have passionately written a topic from your expertise or crafted a narrative with unique plot twists. For sure, you would have high hopes for their publication and consumption.
However, when your ‘masterpieces’ do not offer any connection or solution to your audience or if they lack the necessary exposure, it may be prudent for you to take action on what our guest expert for this podcast will share with you.
All it might take to propel your book to the top of the retail list or the search engine results is a follow-up message, writing a blog, or finding a niche where you can genuinely serve.
Once you digest these critical realizations, communicating your core message through a book may no longer just be a dream. It now becomes a fulfillment, but it must not stop there.
The book’s message must not be constrained to the shelf. The good news is that you have the power to increase your book’s chances of getting noticed.
Our podcast guest, Angela Engel, offers us insights and inspiration on how certain PR activities can elevate independent book authors and their works to a pedestal worthy of attention and publication.
“Everybody wants to write a book, but not everyone's an author. How are you an author? Especially in the nonfiction space, which is what I do. You have to find solutions for others. The best nonfiction books find the solution for others they serve.”
-Angela Engel
Angela Engel is a book publishing expert and businesswoman with over twenty years of expertise in the publishing field. She founded The Collective Book Studio to provide authors all the resources and confidence they need to publish a book. Her mission is to disrupt the publishing industry by providing young authors more agency and influence in the publication process.
If you’re an aspiring writer or an independent book author, this episode is meant to help you explore unconventional yet effective activities that can make you more prominent than other writers and finally publish your book!
Let’s not just get your book published, but let’s get it attracted by publication giants like Forbes and Amazon!
Topics We Cover in This Episode:
The mindset shift you need to pitch your stories
How to plant the seeds of publication
Hacking your way to that first media feature
The positive impact of stories
How to get your story off the ground for publication
Creating unique angles for your stories
If you want to land your first feature for free without any connections, I want to invite you to watch my PR Secrets Masterclass where I reveal the exact methods thousands of bootstrapping small businesses use to hack their own PR and go from unknown to being a credible and sought-after industry expert. Register now at www.gloriachou.com/masterclass.
Resources Mentioned:
Learn more about The Collective Studio: The Collective Book Studio Website
Follow The Collective Studio on Instagram: The Collective Book Studio
Connect with Angela Engel on LinkedIn: Angela Engel
Additional Resources:
Join the Small Biz PR Pros FB group
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Here’s a glance at this episode…
[12:32] When you dedicate yourself to the work, you're actually going to get more media because the media wants to talk to experts, people that aren't doing the work all the time. And so, I think my success has been my consistency.
[19:41] I think it's sometimes pitching around the magazine. What's the magazine doing? What is their readership? And why would you be interesting in their readership?
[26:20] The long-term strategy with my books is to get it into retail, to change lives, to have people pick them up to enjoy the cover, the smell of the paper. To create a book - that's like an art form. If that's my long-term strategy, then I can talk about, why are we so obsessed with the best seller?
[32:20] Everybody wants to write a book, but not everyone's an author. How are you an author? Especially in the nonfiction space, which is what I do. You have to find solutions for others. The best nonfiction books find the solution for others they serve.
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Angela Engel 0:00
The long term strategy with my books is to get it into retail to change lives to have people pick them up to enjoy the cover the smell of the paper to create a book that's like an art form. And if that's my long term strategy, then I can kind of talk about well, why are we so obsessed with the best seller? So we'll see if media isn't interesting on that. And they tell me no, then, you know, what I could do is I could also write it as a blog post on my own blog, to create SEO and probably attract the clients.
Gloria Chou 0:29
Hey, friends, I'm Gloria Chao, small business PR expert, award winning pitch writer and your unofficial Hypponen. Nothing makes me happier than seeing people get the recognition they deserve. And that starts with feeling more confident to go bigger with your message. So on this podcast, I will share with you the untraditional, yet proven strategies for PR marketing and creating more opportunity in your business. If you are ready to take control of your narrative and be your most unapologetic and confident self. You're in the right place. This is the Small Business PR podcast. What's up everyone, I'm so excited for this week's episode of the Small Business PR podcast. We have a very special female entrepreneur, and mother who is joining us her name is Angela angle. She's incredible because she has over 20 years of experience in the bug book publishing space. And what she's doing now is elevating the voices of independent authors. And she's going to share with us today how she's been able to not only do that, but also get her get her authors and get herself in the media to share her story. So welcome to the show. Angela.
Angela Engel 1:30
Hi. It's good to be here. Gloria.
Gloria Chou 1:32
So you've been on so many podcasts you've been on? Publishers Weekly, you've talked about so many different facets of your life, not just what you do. So can you just share with us really quickly, like all the different media opportunities that you've landed for yourself?
Angela Engel 1:47
Yeah, um, you know, definitely industry, media, which is Publishers Weekly, and tons of reviews, whether that's been in Library Journal or Kirkus review, shop, you know, we work with self awareness, we work with all different types of industry, magazines, and we've been able to lay on for example, Shelf Awareness ran an blog article, what my marketing manager wrote on LGBTQ AI bookstores across the country during she wrote this beautiful piece and just sent it to our industry. And they were like, wow, we'd love to rerun this kind of highlighting these bookstores across America. So we've been able to kind of do stuff like that, as well as from a mainstream perspective. We recently recently gotten Business Insider, which is exciting. Thank you, as well. And I've been our books have been seen in real simple. Magazine and parents I wrote actually, I think after taking your course, a great pinion piece. I'm a mom and a publisher for Parents Magazine. And that was really a gift to be able to write that for them and sort of from a mother Propecia perspective and a publisher perspective, what I look for in children's books. So that was really fun. So I've been able to kind of write a lot of different things and been seen both in the mainstream media as well as industry.
Gloria Chou 3:15
I mean, that is absolutely fantastic. I think a lot of times, founders when they're approaching PR, they think they have to pitch with their expertise, their actual, you know, specific industry, but you've been able to carve a story for yourself outside of just being a book public publisher. So can you talk to me a little bit about kind of the mindset shift that you had to make in order to talk, you know, on topics that are more maybe relevant and resonating to you such as motherhood or entrepreneurship and how you were able to pitch those stories?
Angela Engel 3:43
Yeah, it's funny today, actually, I was on a zoom call with a prospect client and kind of laughing how like, everyone now is an entrepreneur versus a small business owner. My husband and I are both business owners. And he runs an accounting firm for the last 15 years. And he would never think of himself as a entrepreneur would think of himself as a business owner, right? I'm having an accounting firm, I'm a business owner. And so to shift this mindset for me to be like, wow, I've really launched and I'm an entrepreneur, essentially. And I do not like the word nor never want the word I've been asked this mom manure and I feel that's really degrading. Because we never say dad manure, right? For some a male. So I really say I've been asked that a lot lately about from a from a media perspective. So I really take my motherhood seriously. And I always say, I can't divide myself, right. I'm a mother. I'm a I'm a I'm a have a partner. I am. I'm a I'm a wife, but I'm also like a business owner and have had 20 plus years with a career. And so I'm very clear with that I happen to be my gender happens to be a woman and yet I don't I'm not and I'm very specific that as I'm an entrepreneur, I'm not a mom anymore.
Gloria Chou 5:05
Yeah, I love that I learned something new as well, because I never really thought about that way. I think you're right that Wow. Like there's if we don't normalize, if we don't say dad printer, why are we saying mompreneur? So thank you for that. You said you mentioned that you've had you've written two op ed pieces for Publishers Weekly. Obviously, lots of podcasts. For a lot of the listeners out there. Can you explain to them what is an op ed? Who are they for? How do you pitch it? And why are they valuable?
Angela Engel 5:29
Yeah. So the first one I wrote was an op ed, sort of why publisher partnership publishing and but but I had to pitch it in a way like what would that mean to my industry? So I pitched this concept of like, what is the solution in partnership publishing, like, when we look at big why is because there's this like it within the industry. There's sort of this battle going on right now. There's self publishing, there's hybrid publishing, there's traditional publishing and, you know, this wave of like this argument, essentially, that's, that's happening, like a steam, like, how should I get published, and I sort of wrote this op ed piece, like, let's stop breaking these, like this argument and break down really, what's the model, and ultimately, what model is going to work best for the writer for the author, and be more that kind of service versus one's better than the other? Right. And so I pitched that idea, and they liked it. So I wrote an op ed piece about it partnership, publishing, which is very, that has an element of custom publishing for brands and has an element of that we do our own concepts and ideas. If you imagine, one of your favorite children's book might be from a National Geographic or a scholastic publishing house, they come up with those concepts themselves and publish them, there's their kind of author less, we do that kind of work that's been in publishing forever. We also work with authors and entrepreneurs, and we let them invest in their work. So they own their own intellectual property, their IP, which is very, very different than traditional publishing. And yet what why Amazon has grown in the self publishing model is this concept and react and talk about intellectual property. So I kind of, I kind of talked about that in the octet of like, what those sorts of terms mean. And I think that that really speak to our, our that audience, which is a, which is a book audience who's already thinking about those ways that we're, we're making content. So that pitch worked. And then recently, I just pitched an idea about banned books. So within the industry, banned books has been a huge, huge topic. I know, in mainstream media, you might have read an article in the Washington Post, or the New York Times and something about the banned books, mouse in Tennessee. And what's happening in Texas, which has this Texas is the largest state for banned books, what's been happening in Florida, and then also what Whoopi Goldberg said on the view, so there has been a lot of that kind of on social media and in some of the mainstream Well, within our industry. We have been talking about banned books for a very long time. And banned books actually has a dedicated week. And librarians are very, very advocates of making sure their libraries are still supporting some of these very important works and banned books. So what I did is what was bothering me though, is that I was watching the bestseller lists, and I was watching mouse on the bestseller list now that it was a banned book, and I'm a granddaughter of Holocaust survivors. So I pitched this to Jim I said this the distortion of history right when we banned a book where essentially like trying to distort this historical narrative. And when we only allow books about the Holocaust that are honestly like an Anne Frank the diary of the Anne Frank, the hero is a Gentile, right? It's somebody who's non Jewish. And so all of the ones that are okay for people to read the the hero there's their hero versus mouse is tragic, and shows the violence and the reality. And so I wrote I said, could I write an op ed piece on this? And within five minutes, the head of all the news within PW wrote me back an email and said absolutely, we would love you to write an op ed piece on it. Wow.
Wow. Because I just said this is my this is how I feel. This is my family history. This is at I wrote an op ed piece that recently got published. It has seen over 4000 plus views on LinkedIn. Yes, and I have been paying To now from all over the industry and from book buyers, to librarians to, to old colleagues that have said, Thank you for writing this piece. Because one thing I wrote in the Op Ed piece was this. When I launched this business, and this is a small business podcast, I never ever thought of myself to say, I'm a Jewish woman owned business. And this is what I write, in the, in the Op Ed piece. I never thought of that. I've been always like, I'm a woman owned business by women owned small business. But to actually come like kind of step into this reality of that I'm Jewish, and a granddaughter of Holocaust survivor is really scary, right? It's scary because of my history. So that's what I write about in it that I show pictures of my, my grandmother, her in the stores in Germany, that were all burned, and to the ground during crystal Na, and so to, to say, Hey, I'm a Jewish business is extremely scary, right, because of my family history. So that was the first time in the four years that I launched my business that I actually came out and wrote and kind of stepped into this fact that I couldn't be silent, because of what happened to my own family. And in that I actually got a wonderful feedback. But it was really actually scary. So I guess my thing to entrepreneurs is, sometimes we do have to sort of do things we might be a little less uncomfortable with, but I think the reward was great.
Gloria Chou 11:43
100% I mean, I, first of all, thank you for sharing that story that's really inspiring. It's a great testament to when you do take a stand, maybe it's contrarian, maybe it ruffle some feathers, you're always going to attract the right people, right. And so in that case, you got a response five minutes later. I also love what you took using the CPR method is the relevance piece. You talked about how you tied it to what's happening with Amazon, what's happening in Texas. So I'm hearing the theme of relevance come up. And I love that you're, you're now thinking in a way of not just saying, Here's my business, here's my company, here's what I'm doing. But you're also adding that piece of relevance, which is so so key. So how has like the relevance piece? Or maybe the CPR method like transformed the way you you thought about pitching yourself and your business?
Angela Engel 12:32
Yeah, that's a great question. I, I think for me, when you're seeing books that are banned on bestseller lists, right, I thought to myself, for the first time, this feels tongue in cheek, right. And I can imagine, you know, as we saw in the Black Lives Matter movement, how many people flocked to the stores, and bought made books, bestsellers, right? And yet, how do we move beyond that tongue in cheek, right. And so I think that's what I really spoke to was this relevance, that if we are trying to talk about AAPI issues, and Black Lives Matter and di work, we have to move beyond just buying a book and making it a best seller, right? Or, or watching something on or posting something on your social media channel, right? Posting? Like, hey, I'm part of this movement. Okay, well, were you part of that movement for 24 hours for a week? Or are you continually trying to do the work. And I think when you dedicate yourself to the work, you're actually going to get more media, because the media wants to talk to experts, people that that aren't doing the work all the time. And so I think my success has been like my consistency
Gloria Chou 13:48
to amazing I mean, consistency is key. Right? And, and the fact that you are a conduit of information, which is also something we talk a lot about in the starter pack is you actually you're elevating the voices of other other storytellers. So you actually can offer up to the journalist and say, Hey, I also have these other people who if you want to interview like I'm happy to connect you with. So is that kind of a hack that you've tried
Angela Engel 14:13
to be 100% We have a book right now called a little less of a hot mess, which is the best title. And it's really, you know, dealing with anxiety. It's written by a therapist, it's a Mom's Guide. And, absolutely, I've to now leads for her that they want her to write op ed pieces on anxiety. I mean, she's a real deal. And this came to just media talking to me who's on my author list. Hey, I'm really interested in in that piece. I also was just recently interviewed by Publishers Weekly on pivoting in COVID and how the shipping delays and things that we've been printing, but they they quoted and talked about some of the the important books that I published on Um, some being one being dear white women, which was written by to Japanese, and white women's and to bipoc Women who are the founders of Dear White women podcast. And they so and that book is like six months, seven months old, right? Yet, it was interesting that that's the book that Publishers Weekly has sort of looked at my press and been like, Hey, this is really interesting work. And we'll cite it in an article seven, eight months later.
Gloria Chou 15:28
That's amazing. So it's about planting the seeds, and having that long term relationship, because I think a lot of times, and you know this when you first started, and he joined the pure starter pack, like you, you know, you maybe you sent some emails, and you didn't get a response right away. You could have just been like, Okay, well, this is not gonna work, right. But you took a long term view, and you kept following up. So can you tell me a little bit more about how you followed up how you were able to land? Whether it's the podcast, or parents or whatever it is? Is there has there been a time when you have landed something without follow up?
Angela Engel 16:01
I mean, I did hire help. And I think that the interesting thing is some some has happened in that in the branding section. But I still think it's me, that's pushing me that's fine. Following up. So no, I mean, the short answer is, is that you always have to follow up. But I sometimes do different message. ways. Like for example, it might be that I've damned this reporter for for Parents Magazine, for example, I wrote this great piece. I'm a mom and a publisher. And they asked me to write for them, which I'd never thought of, I was like, really, I guess that's true. I'm a mom and a publisher. And so I can recommend children's books, right? Because this is Parents Magazine, who their audience is, our parents and their parents are looking for great children's books to read. And so they asked me to write a piece of how do you choose a great children's book now? Great, um, once I wrote that they loved it. And so then I followed up with them about with one of my authors to write I'm a life coach, and sort of here are some of the ways that I you work on grieving, right. And so I'm one of my authors was able to write in that same way for them. And then I recently just ping them about another thing, not on an email, but a DM because I was watching or there's their social media, feed the reporters. And then I was also at, I was noticing what they were talking about night and brought to me another concept or an idea. So I DM them and was like, Hey, I have this idea about women right now and post pandemic parenting. And she was like, absolutely send me the pitch. So I think that it's like, also rethinking your angle sometimes or watching what these reporters are talking about. And again, staying relevant.
Gloria Chou 17:55
Yeah, exactly. And it's, it's really the energetic law of like reciprocity, like, the more you put time into following the the journalists work, the more they're going to be like this person really cares. So like, why wouldn't I feature them again, right. One of the hacks, especially as you know, because you've gotten on too many podcasts is like, at least listen to the podcast, like 99% of people who pitch me on my podcasts, you can tell they've never even listened to. So even if you are that 1% That actually has done just 30 seconds of research that puts you like way above the rest. Yeah, absolutely.
Angela Engel 18:28
Like I'm doing this really, I'm gonna be a guest next week on a creative podcast. And this was really, really cool. He's a professor, as well as a lawyer in intellectual property. And we did like an an informational interview. And it was so interesting to me that I was like, hey, also, could you send me I said to him two or three episodes that you would recommend I listened to before? I'm a guest on your podcast. And he was like, absolutely. I almost think he was shocked because he was never asked that question. And so I also think it's really important to you could also be like, Hey, I've, I've listened to this episode, but if this is what I'd like to talk to you about, could you recommend a couple of episodes you would recommend I'd love to listen to. So that's been a really successful for me when I do stuff like that.
Gloria Chou 19:22
Okay, so now you've done you know, you've written for the op eds, you've spoken on a podcast. Now what if someone is is not quite ready to write an entire op ed or they don't feel confident as a writer? Do you have any tips about just pitching and having the editor or the journalist interview them and having them you know, kind of use their editorial discretion? Yeah, two things.
Angela Engel 19:41
I did get a really cool piece in Hadassah magazine by a writer. And how did I do that? I honestly had a phone call with the business development Person of the magazine. And we were like talking about bigger picture issues like all this kind of stuff and Hadassah magazine and publishing like what does it have to do with each other? Well, they have a book review section. And so I was just talking to them about our own authors. How do we get them in like just asking those questions versus me? Well, then they kind of got asked about my backstory and all this stuff and thought it was so interesting connected me with a feature, Feature Editor. So I think that sometimes it's just honestly reaching out to like a business development, what magazines what other like maybe, you know, product, like a shopping bag or something that you create, like, talk to them about like the product features, or like the gift guides round up. But then maybe when you're talking to them, you and you get your bag and the product guide, right. You can also just talk to them about what you do, what your business is, what your passion is. And Then There ended up being an article about me and my family and like what draws me to, to publishing because in the end, there is not a lot of businesses like woman owned publishing businesses, especially Jewish Well, the Hadassah magazine person was like, Wait a second, we would love to feature you as because our readership is women, and they would be interested that your business even exists, right. So I think it's sometimes pitching to around the magazine. What's the magazine doing that they might? What is their readership? And why would you be interesting to their readership?
Gloria Chou 21:39
I love that. And it's again, it's about it's about giving value and being of service and if you the energy of the pitches, please be my free advertising vehicle, then they're gonna say no, but if it's like, here's what I'm noticing, right, using the CPR method, here's what I'm noticing. Have you thought about this? And then you straight up, strike up a conversation, follow them on social? Absolutely, you can keep getting press after press feature. That's totally possible. And you've proven that. Yeah. So
Angela Engel 22:07
I think that that is the better way. It's just been a hearing No, realizing, like, for example, right? I really want to publish like the top 10 Women in publishing, doing, like disrupting the mold, right? But not all the feedback we've gotten from reporters is this feels promotional. And I'm like, How is this promotional? I'm trying to like, lift up me as well as like all these amazing other women within my industry. And so now I have to rethink that a goal, right has been the feedback. So now I'm thinking, okay, everybody's obsessed with becoming having a best seller. Right? Everybody's obsessed with having an Amazon best seller, and they'll pay like all this money for advertising. And they get their Kindle as a best seller. But why, like, my like, Is that is that ego? Is that narcissism? Like? Why are we so as a society, obsessed as a best seller, so my next angle to reporters is going to be like that, because I actually think that's an interesting article that I would read. So that's also my next theory is like, Okay, well, if they're telling you know, that sounds promotional. Think about like, what would be an interesting in your headline that you would read? And or that you've read kind of it within this newspaper or
Gloria Chou 23:23
magazine? Yeah. And that's why installing a Google news alert is so key, right? Because you start to marinate into your brain, like, what are the subject lines, and you start to understand, you know, the eyes and ears of a journalist. So 100%, I have another question to ask you is, you know, when before you obviously, we met, and you were thinking about doing PR, and now you're a Media Pro, right, and now you're not only doing media for yourself, you've landed, you've also, you're also landing media for your author. So my question is, you know, what is the biggest misconception about doing your own PR and pitching because for a lot of people who are just afraid to take the leap, or they think they need to save up all this money for a PR agency? What have you discovered to be true for how this DIY kind of framework works?
Angela Engel 24:10
Um, I think that like, what you have to know that like, you just have to, I gotta figure I've talked about this, you have to just set aside time. So you have to set aside time. And that is my biggest hurdle, the hardest thing, but like, really thinking about, okay, what is in this hour? What could I accomplish? Like, could I take a Google Doc and just literally write down all the different kinds of headlines or angles that I'm thinking today? Could what also actually has helped is sometimes recordings from podcasts or, or coaching like I actually see a coach, okay. And what I'll do is I'll listen to the transcript after I'll listen to podcasts and I'll read my trash. script after a coaching session call, then there are such good nuggets within there in that transcript, I literally will copy, paste it in a Google Doc, and then start thinking about it in terms of how can I take what I'm saying, and craft it into a patch. So I guess that's my biggest advice, which I'm going to give a shout out to my life coach. But she APR is fantastic has really actually been able to give me some real interesting in depth way, ways of actually making pit eight myself a pitching angles, actually my op ed piece for Publishers Weekly on banned books from mass came out of my anger in a coaching call.
Gloria Chou 25:44
That's amazing. I love that so much. So always be thinking about angles, always thinking about how you can be relevant even outside of your immediate role or title, which is what you've done. And you've pitched stories about your heritage, your background, your ancestors, the fact that you're a mom, like that you're a publisher, so it just goes to show that there are so many opportunities, right to get yourself featured. Is there anything else that you've now that you've, you know, done this quite a few times, anything else that you've noticed, or any hacks that you want to share with our audience who maybe have not started pitching yet, and they just want to get that first media feature?
Angela Engel 26:20
Yeah, I mean, I think you know, when you're talking, the first word that comes to mind, for me is vulnerability. I think that the fact is, is that we all are vulnerable. And you know, you it's okay to be, and what's the worst that can happen is that someone tells you now, that is not that bad. Okay? If you are an entrepreneur or small business owner, you're going to have to get used to nose. And so I think like, to be honest, I just feel you have to be vulnerable and all humans are and if you can just like own that, and sometimes when the reporter when you follow up, or you can say hey, can you just be honest with me like why you didn't take this, I think at the feedback that that felt to promotional, but that feedback is what allows you then to write, or or think about other things like so I was like, Okay, I'm gonna move on from this list. I'm going to not be attached to it. And I'm going to start to think about Amazon Best Sellers, I'm gonna go around and do a whole new thing. And because I can't speak to that, because my my books, I'm not as obsessed with the one week that my book will be an Amazon bestseller because it well, it's great, fine. That is not the long term strategy, just like PR, the long term strategy with my books, is to get it into retail, to change lives to have people pick them up to enjoy the cover the smell of the paper to create a book that's like an art form. And if that's my long term strategy, right, then I'm not then I can kind of talk about, well, why are we so obsessed with the best seller? So I'm, you know, I thinking like, Okay, that's interesting to me, because, and we'll see if media isn't interesting on that. And they tell me no, then, you know, what I could do is I could also write it as a blog post in my own on my own blog, to create SEO and probably attract clients. So I also want to encourage business owners to write a blog to practice that, and how can that could attract clients? Because I, I do do that.
Gloria Chou 28:28
Yeah, I love that. And everything that you've said, right? You didn't lead with, here is my company. Here's what I'm doing here. Like, you're you're leading with the idea, the topic, the insight. And then of course, in the course of the interview, they're gonna ask about what you do, right. But I love how you're not leading with that. And your pitch is not like talk about my, you know, my independent publishing company. It's so much more. It's like, here's what I've learned, or here's, here's what it's like, or, you know, how the pandemic has changed publishing. So can you talk a little bit more about kind of the mindset shift? Because I think for so many people, they still are thinking that the pitch is literally, they have to get to a certain place in their business, or they have to make it big in their business before they are worthy to be covered. And that's just simply not true.
Angela Engel 29:13
Yeah. You know, I think imposter syndrome, right? People like to talk about that. I'm always like, what is that? Like? I mean, we all have insecurities, right? We all we all have these things we've gone through. For me, you know, I feel I'm deserving. I spent 20. I've been in careers for over 20 years. And I spent, you know, the first 15 years in in more of corporate environments, working for others, like doing the large trade shows, you know, traveling was while I had babies, essentially all over the country leaving the babies going to go present in big corporate companies. And so I feel I have something to say I feel like you know, my oldest is gonna be 14 years old. And 14 years ago, there was no pumping stations at an airport, we literally pumped in a bathroom stall at the JFK airport or like that was it, but you didn't have these luxury. Also, I remember when I got to go visit Amazon corporate, the first time I found a beautiful pumping room was was my second child. And I was like, wow, what is this, I'm used to pumping in court, like in a utility closet at the Javits Center. So like, I just think like that mind shift had, like, I'm now able to talk about it. Like even if my company, right, the collective book studio is not as 100 year old company established like a workman or an Abrams are some of the people that I really admire in the industry. I have also worked for some, some larger companies, and can kind of talk about other things about what it means to take this huge leap of faith to start a business, as well as the, the transition from, you know, being a young career person to having children and still keeping your career and like all of those things. Those are interesting to people, like so I think if people can kind of tell their story, they will then tell them, why did they create this product? Right? So when they when people start to talk to me about my story there, they actually realize, Oh, my God, no wonder she's a publisher. She's done all of this work in books selling to Costco and target and BJs. I mean, you name it, if it has a shopping cart, I've probably sold to that account. So there's they're gonna that's my background. So it's going to come up naturally.
Gloria Chou 31:56
Yeah, I love that. It's and it's not about, you know, it's it's your story. But also, why is that important, right is because you can help people you can share insights, you can overcome bias, or whatever that is, right. So it's not just leading with your story. But why? What like, Why does your Why does sharing your story? Matter? How is it going to make a positive impact? And I think I think you've hit the nail right on the head. Yeah,
Angela Engel 32:20
that's what I tell people who want to write a book. Exactly. Gloria, what you're saying, like people's, especially entrepreneur, oh, I want to write a book. Okay, everybody wants everybody can wants to write a book, but not everyone's an author. How are you an author, you have specially in the nonfiction space, which is what I do, you have to find solutions for others write the best nonfiction books, find the solution for others, they serve.
Gloria Chou 32:52
Oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put that on a sticky note. Because that's really what I'm doing. And that's what you're doing. Yeah. And we are all finding a solution for others. And if you can lead with that, and not so much about cover me cover me because my story is more unique. It's not about your story being unique, but how your story has found a solution for others. That's so good. Yeah,
Angela Engel 33:10
you're welcome. Or you know what I got once from actually, a publicist told me because I was like, Well, why am I not getting picked up? I'm a woman, entrepreneur, right? Business Owner, it's type of COVID. Like everyone's talking about women owned businesses, blah, blah. And she said to me, there's a 1000s of you out there, your story is not unique. And I I, like, swallowed my tears, I felt a little like, what are we talking about, like I and I said, I didn't let that bother me. I actually was like, Wait a second, I am unique. And this is why. And I had to sort of move beyond like a woman owned business, there's 1000s of us, and realize what made me different was the idea of serving.
Gloria Chou 34:04
I love that. So your story is important. It's unique, but you need to lead with how are you finding a solution for others, and you can draw people into your world that way. I love that. We have a lot of authors, including yourself. In the PR starter pack. We have a lot of authors who are wanting to get their story out there. Do you have any industry insider advice on how they can either self publish or kind of get their books off the ground?
Angela Engel 34:27
Yeah, I mean, I am no expert in self publishing. And I'm probably a little say with self publishing. What is your why there? And I say what is your why? across across the board, right. I actually just wrote, it's coming out in June for an MFA. And I'll send it to Gloria when it comes out. I just wrote a really cool article for DIY MFA program piece about publishing and it deals with Like the different aspects, hybrid self publishing, traditional publishing, and why you would want to do it. And my biggest advice to people is that the if, if you are an entrepreneur, and a book is your brand, write a book is your brand. As much as you're developing your brand, let's say you're doing this skin line care, and you're taking real time to develop that skin line and make it perfect. That's what you also need to be thinking about as a book. It's not just like something you slap on a page and like load up a PDF and say, Okay, I can self publish a book, you really my biggest advice to people is like, don't just have a family member or best friend read it, you need to hire experts minimum, to really make sure because it is your brand, and you want to put your best brand, your best self forward.
Gloria Chou 35:54
Oh, that's so good. I love that. Now, you've done so many things, and you're very accomplished. And in doing so you've also built your own community. What is your goal for this year, I want to talk about your specific PR goals. You've been able to share on so many podcasts share about your motherhood story on parents on you know, industry. So what else do you still want to land in terms of media features?
Angela Engel 36:18
Well, you know, I'm gonna use the word Forbes. Okay. So I was so obsessed with Forbes, I think when I joined your group a year ago about and I thought that's what I wanted, what I wanted, and I pitched Forbes all different angles. And I've gotten Forbes feedback and multiple opportunities to be on Forbes Council and pay for Forbes, and I've refused every single one. I've determined that when it comes to Forbes, I deserve to be there and I don't have to pay for the article. I could have paid for the article. Six months ago, guys, okay, yeah, no problem. Seriously, you can take glorious class, you can come up with a great pitch, Forbes will Forbes will totally publish you. You'll just have to pay for it. So why I'm saying this on this podcast is this. I finally through my life coach, I actually let go. I was so angry. I was like, oh my god, this is probably two months ago. I don't understand I can't earn a four. I can't afford it. It's been almost a year. And she was like, what what it Why are you so obsessed with this? But I was like, I don't know. I think I just worked the logo on my website. I think it's really great. And that was the same thing about an Amazon bestseller. Like why are you so obsessed with this? Like, who? What is it in your ego? And as soon as I let that kind of concept and said, You know what, forget it. Let's Let's stop. I'm not going to spend any more energy there. I got Business Insider earned media, earned media as a Business Insider, because which felt amazing. I got I loved the article. It was for small businesses that there they have a Small Business Business Insider, like feature the reporter was great, but I didn't even get that concept or open my brain to pitch them because I was so focused on Forbes. And then I think though right now I want it you know, of course, I'd love to be in like Fast Company. We're growing. We did we were just shy of a billion dollars last year, the collective books studio. So thank you. So you know, these there's some like $1 million goals $2 million goals and things like that, that I'm like really set on to get so that I can get on Fast Company. I'd love to be on huffing, women, women, Huffington Post. Motherly, I think it's a great is a great Oh,
Gloria Chou 38:40
that should be Yeah, you should pitch that right away, especially since you and on parents.
Angela Engel 38:44
Yeah. So I think there's some really good places that I have my sights set on 2022. I really would love to get some local media, some arts and culture stuff in San Francisco Chronicle would be a dream. So I continually am trying that. But I also want to I think, for me in 2022 it is diving into arts and culture. Because we're so obsessed with, you know, YouTube and Tik Tok and whatever else is on our phone, but how can we type to like really preserve arts and culture in a different way through the book. And I think I kind of speak to that through my authors and what we do.
Gloria Chou 39:27
There's your angle there. Now you got to dig into the starter pack and start pitching love it.
Angela Engel 39:32
Don't really do good because I've been I just started to talk about that this week with the team
Gloria Chou 39:38
preserving our preserving arts and culture in the age of tick tock and and faster, fast social media.
Angela Engel 39:44
Can I get Okay, wait, wait, you gotta put that in the chat. That is definitely an angle. Yeah. Preserving art and culture. Culture. Yeah.
Gloria Chou 39:52
The age of tick tock and Fast, fast social media.
Angela Engel 39:54
Social media. Yeah.
Gloria Chou 39:57
I love that. Well, you've been an incredible member. are an inspiring leader in our Facebook group, in our PR community, I'm so glad that the universe put us together. And I'm so impressed by the work that you're doing. And for anyone that's listening, who may or may not be thinking about publishing, or maybe want to know a little bit more about what you do, how can they find you?
Angela Engel 40:17
So really easy. I actually do manage my instagram with someone else. But I answer most all the DMS myself, it's really important to me. So that's just at the collective book studio. And then I'm also really active on LinkedIn. So we can put that in the show notes. And I love LinkedIn, you can definitely DM me there, connect with me there.
Gloria Chou 40:41
That's so nice and generous of you. That's awesome. Thank you so much. We're gonna have to have you back on the show after you land. All of those things that you talked about because it was absolutely 100% doable. I mean, remember when you didn't get even one press feature and now you're like, I want all these everything imagined is real. Okay. Everything you imagined is really going to process Send button. So thank you so much for joining us and inspiring us today. Thank you for Yeah. Hey, small business hero. Did you know that you can get featured for free on outlets like Forbes, The New York Times, Marie Claire Pop Sugar and so many more, even if you're not yet launched? Or if you don't have any connection? That's right. That's why I invite you to watch my PR Secrets masterclass, where I reveal the exact methods 1000s of bootstrapping small businesses use to hack their own PR and go from unknown to being a credible and sought after industry expert. Now if you want to land your first press feature, get on a podcast, secure a VIP speaking gig or just reach out to that very intimidating editor. This class will show you exactly how to do it. Register now at Gloria Chou pr.com/masterclass. That's Gloria Chou c-h-o-u pr.com/masterclass. So you can get featured in 30 days without spending a penny on ads or agencies. Best of all, this is completely free. So get in there and let's get you featured.