Episode 45: Strategies and Trends from a Podcast Industry Insider, How to Leverage Podcast Guest Appearance for Your Business with Travis Albritton
Do you feel desperate to make a pitch for your business now? Or do you sense that you are running out of PR opportunities to share your message?
You've been pitching for some time now, hoping to land that top-tier media interview or get published in well-reputed magazines. Yet, despite all your efforts, getting that media feature remains elusive.
Don't worry if you feel that way, for what I'm about to share with you is a PR leverage I had not discovered until recently. You may also be surprised that few business founders have taken advantage of this tool and that many overlook its potential.
In reality, this is such a powerful platform that you should also aspire to get featured one day.
And I'm referring to podcasts!
For me, I consider podcasts as game changers in my PR journey. I had never thought that hosting or guesting in a podcast could bring so much value to my business.
Who would've imagined that a recorded online conversation between an expert and me would open the doors for more PR opportunities?
Now, you may be asking, 'How can podcasting really help me or my business?'
Well, podcasts help you in several ways like clarifying your message, finding the right audience, connecting with experts, and being genuine.
Not to mention, you gain a lot more confidence in communicating your brand through authentic conversations while just being yourself.
That is why this episode is not just about podcasts. Our special guest, Travis Albritton, a podcast industry leader, will discuss the essence of podcasting. Most importantly, he will share how podcasts can dramatically and positively change your PR journey, as with mine.
"Podcasting is the best way to cut through the noise and become an industry leader because the competition is actually really wide open. And if you just commit to sticking with it for an extended period of time, it won't be long before you rise to the top."
-Travis Albritton
Travis Albritton has been serving Christians online for more than five years. His popular podcast, The Practical Christian, has been downloaded more than 300,000 times in 160 countries around the world. He's an Amazon best-selling author and a driven disciple on a mission to launch Christians into online ministry.
Whether you want to launch your own podcast, become more confident in your media features, or hope to guest in someone's podcast, this special episode is the right place for you! Learn the strategies and trends from the podcast expert, so you can leverage your next guest appearance and nail it!
Topics We Cover in This Episode:
Understanding the business of podcasting
Why business founders should try podcasting at least once
The numbers that matter in podcasting
Tips for crushing your guest podcast interview
Identifying the right shows to pursue guest spots
How to make podcast hosts easily say 'Yes!' for your next feature
If you want to land your first feature for free without any connections, I want to invite you to watch my PR Secrets Masterclass where I reveal the exact methods thousands of bootstrapping small businesses use to hack their own PR and go from unknown to being a credible and sought-after industry expert. Register now at www.gloriachou.com/masterclass.
Resources Mentioned:
Gloria Chou's Masterclass: PR Masterclass
Gloria Chou's Starter Pack: PR Starter Pack
Travis Albritton's Email: travis@christcentered.marketing
Additional Resources:
Join the Small Biz PR Pros FB group
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Here’s a glance at this episode…
[2:30] What I love about podcasting is it's very easy to get started. It's a very simple way to connect at a deep level with people in a really authentic way, where you don't feel like you have to show up in a certain way.
[5:25] If you target people and podcasts that would have audiences containing the kinds of people you'd hope to serve, then you'll find out very quickly, is this actually a problem that people want fixed?
[6:25] Three seconds is how Facebook measures video plays. So imagine, like you're trying to compete for three seconds of someone's attention. That's not very valuable. But with podcasting, one of the craziest stats that has been shown to be true time and time again is that the vast majority of people listen to the entire episode.
[12:41] If you're nervous about getting started with being a podcast guest, I would find a podcast that isn't very large. So maybe a podcast that's relatively new. But you can tell they're serious because they're producing episodes on a frequent basis.
[18:59] Always lead and follow-through, and just commit to the fact that you are showing up to help them. So, if there's any ounce of like, this is self-serving for me. That's an immediate turnoff.
[23:47] If you can instead focus on how do I serve this person, and help them reach their goals for this podcast, then that goes a lot. That goes a long way in getting the yes that you're looking for.
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Travis Albritton 00:00
Most podcasters, if they've been doing it for a long time, their show becomes almost like a child to them. Like it becomes a part of them. It becomes a part of their identity, that not only are they a podcaster, but they really draw deep emotional, and purpose-driven satisfaction from the shows they create.
Gloria Chou 00:20
Hey friends, I'm Gloria Chou, small business PR expert, award-winning pitch writer and your unofficial hype woman. Nothing makes me happier than seeing people get the recognition they deserve. And that starts with feeling more confident to go bigger with your message. So on this podcast, I will share with you the untraditional, yet proven strategies for PR marketing and creating more opportunity in your business. If you are ready to take control of your narrative and be your most unapologetic and confident self, you're in the right place. This is the Small Business PR podcast. All right, everyone. I'm so excited to invite my own podcast manager, Travis Albritton onto the podcast. He is a former head of content at Buzzsprout, which is the number one podcast hosting platform in the entire world. They host over 115,000 active podcasts. And Travis is also going to share with us the trends, the stats about how to get on a podcast, how to be a good podcast guests. So this episode is for you if you have ever thought about getting onto a podcast, starting your own podcast, or just learning more about podcast. So another thing I want to say is if you've seen all of the reels and content on my Instagram that is also made by Travis. It's like going so well. So if anyone's interested, definitely hit him up for any questions that you have at Christ-Centered Marketing. So Travis, welcome to the show.
Travis Albritton 01:39
Thank you so much, Gloria. It's great that we're not just having a catch up call. We're actually going to be dropping some nuggets of wisdom today. There'll be a lot of fun.
Gloria Chou 01:47
Oh, I'm so excited to share this with everyone. So tell me a little bit about the podcasts you've been on, like how many podcasts you've been on. So that way we can kind of ease into this conversation.
Travis Albritton 01:57
Sure. So I've personally launched over a dozen podcasts. It's kind of the name of the game, when it's your job, you do it a lot. And then as far as being a guest, probably 20, 30,40 you kind of lose count after a certain period of time. But it's a lot of fun. The thing that I love about podcasting is it's almost like you're just capturing what many of us do nowadays a FaceTime call, Zoom chat. Facebook has their own video messaging platform, and you're just capturing a conversation that is relevant for a group of people. And so what I love about podcasting is it's very easy to get started. It's a very simple way to connect at a deep level with people in a really authentic way, where you don't feel like you have to show up in a certain way like you do for social media or for YouTube. You don't have to be really great at writing to be a blogger. You can just be yourself, hold a conversation with someone else and share that with people who'll be interested in it. And so I think that's what's so powerful about podcasting and why it's gained so much traction in recent years.
Gloria Chou 02:54
I love that too. And what I love is that after you've been on a podcast, the ROI from leveraging it, like for example, what you do for me. There's different reels that are created. They're shown in SEO. There's so much content that can be produced just from getting on for 30 minutes with a podcast host that I encourage every single person to get on at least one podcast in their lifetime. Which leads me to my question of: why should everyone get on at least one podcast? What if they don't even have a business? What if they're in school? Why should they actually try to get on a podcast?
Travis Albritton 03:25
One of the interesting things happens when you shift from being a consumer of media to being a co-producer or creator of content, you start to see the world a little bit differently. When you're scrolling social media, you see a video, you see a clip, you see an image, you just think about it differently when you are actually in a space of creating content for the internet. And so whether you are in school, and you're like, 'Hey, I just want to be on a podcast.' And we're talking about something I'm interested in, whether it's a TV show, or a hobby that you're passionate about. Or if you just want to connect with somebody, and have a conversation that you think would be relevant for a close group of friends that you want to share it with. I think the powerful thing about podcasting is it can be whatever you want it to be. But I think the really cool thing that unlocks when you become, when you go on as a guest of a podcast is you see what's possible. You see what you could do. You see what you could offer to the world. And it just becomes one more way for you to be able to share the things you're passionate about, that are valuable to you, and be able to impact people in a positive way.
Gloria Chou 04:22
So let's say if someone has a very young business or maybe just has an idea, how can they leverage that maybe to plant the seeds for the future success of their career or business?
Travis Albritton 04:34
So I think one of the most valuable things that you can do if you're starting a new business is get lots of objective feedback as quickly as possible. Because if you share your idea with close friends, family members, they might give you the advice that they think you're looking for because they just want to support you and tell you nice things. But if you can instead say 'Okay, I'm going to go and talk to people that are in the trenches, that are experiencing the kinds of problems I'm trying to fix and solve with my business and they have audiences of people that are similar, that have similar problems, similar things trying to fix in their life, that I feel like I can be of service to them, then use podcasts as a way of validating that business idea. So you could pitch the thing that you do, or the thing that you're wanting to do to hosts and say, 'This is what I do. This is what I'm building. I would love to talk about the benefits of how this particular kind of product or service could make a positive impact in somebody's life.' If you target people and podcasts that would have audiences containing the kinds of people you'd hope to serve, then you'll find out very quickly, is this actually a problem that people want fixed? And is there actually demand for this? If I start this business, if I invest in capital into starting it, is there actually an audience there waiting for this product, waiting for this service that I can capitalize on to actually hit the ground running?
Gloria Chou 05:49
I love that. And obviously, as you know, I'm a PR person, so it's all about that credibility. Obviously, I think there's something to say about being vetted by the podcast host. That's like, I am inviting you on. I am assuming the cost of this production. But I believe what you have to say is valuable, is impactful. So I'm willing to give you this kind of precious real estate, if you will.
Travis Albritton 06:11
Yeah. And the really cool thing about podcasting is, it's a very intimate medium. So if you think about social media, if you think about YouTube, blogs, you may get a couple minutes of someone's attention. Three seconds is how Facebook measures video plays. So imagine, like you're trying to compete for three seconds of someone's attention. That's not very valuable. But with podcasting, one of the craziest stats that has been shown to be true time and time again, is that the vast majority of people listen to the entire episode. And most episodes are between 25 and 40 minutes long, on average. So you're talking about 25 to 40 minutes of time, talking to someone who's interested in the topic that you're talking about. That's incredibly valuable, like you cannot replicate that anywhere else on the internet. And so being able to have that at your disposal in order to gain exposure, in order to connect with an audience. And like you said, being vetted by the podcast host. The people that listen to that show every single week, they tune in because they trust that person. They may have showed up because the topic was relevant for them. But over time, they subscribe and continue to listen to the shows that have the hosts that they trust, that has the content that they're interested in, that they find it entertaining, or informative. And so just by virtue of you being on that show has that authority built into it—that you've been validated by that podcast host. And so if they had seen you on Instagram, just seen like a reel that was showing up in their browse feed, they might not know like, Is this even a person who knows what they're talking about? Or is it someone who's just pretending? Just trying to grow a social media account? But when you show up on their favorite podcasts, they're like, 'Oh, well, the only reason they're here is because they must know what they're talking about.' And so I think that's the really cool thing is you can trade on that authority. And then once you show up, you just have to hit it out of the ballpark.
Gloria Chou 07:59
Boom! Mic drop moment. I mean, if anyone has ever thought about getting on a podcast, this statement that you just made is like 'I should have done this three years ago.' I mean, seriously, I'm like, 'Why did I even just start my podcast a few months ago?' But thank you so much for telling us about that. I do agree that we are so starved for time, that being able to be on someone's platform, talk to their trusted audience who trust that person's opinion. It's like not even a double whammy. It's like four things of ROI and like a lowest minimum effort. Anyone can pitch and get on to a podcast because there's so many. But the contradictory opinion, people might say is, 'Are people really listening to podcasts? Because if we're so with three-second attention span, maybe people aren't even listening to podcasts.
Travis Albritton 08:45
There's a couple of different agencies that track consumer data. So Nielsen's is the popular one for television. And they do have some podcast data. But the agency, the group that does the best job is called the Edison group. And they consistently put out information about the consumption of podcasts, not only in the US, but nationally at a platform level, age, demographics, things like that. The number that always that I look to is percentage of monthly users or percentage of monthly listeners. So these are people that every single month are listening to podcasts. And so, some weeks are better than others. You have daily podcast users, the hardcore podcast users, but monthly gives you a good idea of the scope of the medium and the reach. And at the end of 2021, they did their standard survey, and 41% of adults in the United States are now listening to podcasts on a monthly basis. If you think about 41% of adults, that's somewhere between 150 to 180 million people, every single month tuning into podcasts. By comparison to YouTube and blogs and social media, there are not that many podcasts, depending on how you look at it. You're looking at maybe a half a million podcasts that are publishing every single week. And so a half a million podcasts for 150 to 180 million people. And then you identify like, these are the podcasts that my businesses audiences are interested in, you've really quickly narrowed in on. This is a passionate group of people that I can speak directly to for an extended period of time and cut through the noise. There really is no better opportunity to get in front of the right people and have an extended conversation to build trust and authority.
Gloria Chou 10:24
Well, sorry. You just blow my mind again. So 41% of all adults. I don't even think 41% of all adults are on Facebook or Tik Tok.
Travis Albritton 10:33
Well, it depends on the age. So I would definitely say 41% under 18 are on Tik Tok. But it's absolutely mind-blowing. Because it's not actually that old, like podcasting really started picking up steam around eight years ago with a little show called Serial. That really kind of blew the doors off of it. Before that it was a really niche medium. I think what's really caught on a lot of traction is some of the things that we've talked about, it's very easy to get into, it's very inexpensive. You don't have to have your hair done up or do anything, you can just pick up a microphone, plug it in your computer, and record that way. And now you can easily distribute it to anyone, and they can listen to it. And so I think the barrier of entry is really low. But there are some factors that determine whether you'll be successful in the long term or not, which we can dig into if that's relevant or helpful for people. But I think that's really the power here is there's a lot of opportunities still to come. And podcasting isn't slowing down at all.
Gloria Chou 11:33
That is literally one of the lowest hanging fruit everyone should go after. Because I think a lot of people just kind of stick with like, I need to make content on Instagram. I need to do all these reels. But Instagram can just be hacked tomorrow and you lose everything. You don't own that audience. With a podcast, it's searchable. It's on the internet. There's so many pieces of content that we produce. For example, what you're doing for me, that's why I'm going all in on it. And I will say that it does work because I cannot tell you how many times people have actually bought my course, the PR Starter Pack, as you know, just from other people's podcasts. Because I always ask them, how did you find me? And I would think it's like the Instagram or the all the time I'm spending like whether it's Facebook ads, and like, 'Oh, I heard you on a podcast.' And I was like, 'Whoa, so this stuff works, my friend.' All right. So you've been on 30, 40, I've been on 30, 40 podcasts. The people in the Starter Pack know that it's important. But for people who are just starting out, they maybe have not really publicly spoken. They don't feel like they're a great speaker. How do they actually start to figure out how to find the right podcast? And then afterwards, we can talk about like the actual do's and don'ts of pitching. But how do I find which podcasts even pitch to?
Travis Albritton 12:41
If you're nervous about getting started with being a podcast guest, I would find a podcast that isn't very large. So maybe a podcast that's relatively new. But you can tell they're serious because they're producing episodes on a frequent basis. Essentially, you want to start with the smallest audience that would still move the needle for you, if it ended up working out. Because that kind of alleviates some of the pressure. Like if you were to be a guest on Joe Rogan, it's the first podcast you've ever done, and now 20 million people are gonna hear it. That can be a lot of pressure. That could create some anxiety of like, 'Oh, man, I gotta really be perfect and nail this. But if it's just a podcast that 50 people listen to, then it doesn't matter how bad you screw it up. Because you can just say, 'Hey, 50 people heard that, so it's not going to make or break my year or my season or my business. So start small. Start with something where even if it was a complete disaster, then it would still be okay. And then what a lot of people don't know is you can actually ask after the fact to redo or not use an interview that you do with somebody. And so if you go on, and it's like complete, just garbage dumpster fire, you're gonna say, 'Hey, you know, I really appreciate your time. I didn't do as good of a job as I could have done on the interview. There are things that I left unsaid that I really wish I could have said, or things that I did say that I regret. I would love to either re-record or just request that you not use that interview. Because I don't feel like it's going to serve your audience very well. And it's not something that I would be excited about standing behind to promote to the people that follow me online.' Almost 100% of the time, the podcast host will accommodate that because you're doing it for their benefit. So even if it's totally awful, you can just get a do over and be totally fine.
Gloria Chou 14:28
I love that. And you know what? It's in the doing. When I first started speaking on podcast, I was so nervous. I had all these notes and stickies. I was like flipping pages. Like I think the person on the other end could actually hear me flipping my notebook. But now I'm like, 'Okay, I know exactly what to ask.' But it comes with actually being on podcast. There's no shortcut for experience. You just need to literally start pitching. I think the first podcast I got on was like teeny tiny, like, really not related to anything. It was like some software podcast, but yeah, definitely listen to what Travis says to start there. So then, how can people start? Once they figure out, how can you gauge what is an actually aligned audience that's going to get you the ROI, whether it's selling more of your services or building that thought leadership?
Travis Albritton 15:14
Sure. So I'll give you the advice from the perspective of somebody who has a business. And the main goal they have for going on a podcast is to get more customers. So the first thing is, if you don't already know, identify who is your ideal customer avatar. If you build up a profile of the person that your business serves most perfectly, that's a really great place to start. Because then you can start asking questions like, what are their interests? What kind of TV shows do they watch? What kind of books do they read? What kind of blogs do they follow? Newsletters. Those kinds of things. You can build up a picture of this person, and then that can now be a filter that you use when you start looking at podcasts. And so if you're in the beauty space, for instance, and you want to get on other podcasts where you can talk about your products, your services, then you might not go for podcasts that are completely unrelated to what you do, and that are focused mainly on men. So fantasy football podcasts, for instance. There might be some people there that would be interested in your services, but probably not as many as a homeschooling podcast, or actually a comedy podcast. Ironically enough that the number one consumer of comedy podcasts and true crime podcasts are women. And so, it's like, 'Hey, even if you could just go on a murder mystery podcast, as like a guest host, taking part in the conversation. And then, as a part of that, you can introduce the fact that you actually have a business. So it doesn't necessarily have to be a perfect match that the podcast content exactly speaks to what you do as a business person, you're really just looking for shows that will speak to the same audience that you're trying to serve, and then showing up with a lot of value. So when you're trying to filter out what are the podcast to pursue, not pursue, that's the first thing. Where is my audience currently spending time? And then how do I build a connection with that host and establish trust really quickly? So they feel like this is a person worth bringing on as a guest. And that's where I think your CPR method is. So just money is you very quickly establish not only your authority, but that they can trust you and that you know what you're talking about. And so if they're trying to pick through a slew of options, your pitch immediately rises to the top.
Gloria Chou 17:23
I love that. Now, we're getting into the juicy part of pitching. I could talk about this all day. So I have my own methods. You've seen the methods work. I want to hear from you. How are you getting on to all these other podcasts? What's worked for you? What does not work that other people say you should do that you're like, maybe not?
Travis Albritton 17:40
So I think the number one thing that you should do is make sure that you're talking to the person who decides who is going to be on as a guest. Often that is not the host. Often that is a virtual assistant. If they're a part of a network, they likely have a person who is in charge of managing people's schedules and interview schedules and things like that. And so try and identify who is the person who is actually responsible for managing the interview process. So I work with clients where the host is the CEO of the company. He's not trying to find guests. It's somebody else in the marketing team. And so quite often, these podcasts will have emails, contact emails associated with the show. That is likely the best email to use because that's gonna go to whoever the person is that actually manages the show, not necessarily the person that is the talent on the show. Something else you can do, if it's a larger show is look at the credits for the show. Often on the show notes of the website, it'll lay out like, here's the producer; here's the audio engineer; here's the person that did the graphic. Go through that list to see if you can find someone who's a podcast producer, podcast manager. That'll give you an insight into who is the person actually pulling the strings to decide who is the best fit for the show. And then once you do find that person, and you find the best way to contact them, whether it's a DM on Instagram, or Twitter, or an email or LinkedIn message. Always lead and follow through, and just commit to the fact that you are showing up to help them. So if there's any ounce of like, this is self-serving for me. That's an immediate turnoff. But if instead, it's 'I love your show. This is my favorite episode. Here's why. This is what I would love to offer to your audience. I feel like this would be really valuable, a topic you haven't covered yet. Something you could go even more deep on, very similar to CPR. Here's my unique perspective that I have on something that's happening in real time, and make it all about them. And also make yourself super available to be able to record whenever they can. So try if at all possible, figure out how to make yourself flexible from a time perspective. So if they're like, 'Hey, I got a spot Tuesday at 2pm. Can you do that?' Do your best to be able to say yes. I know it's not always possible. But that makes a huge difference when they don't feel like there's gonna be a lot of work on their ends to accommodate you. Then you become an easy guests to say yes to. So those are the big three: identify the person who's actually responsible for managing the interviews and the process of booking guests. Make sure that it's 100%, about how you serve them and their audience, and then try and be as flexible as possible, so it's easy for them to say yes to you. And then don't feel like they have to jump through a bunch of hoops to accommodate you, in the restriction you have in your time.
Gloria Chou 20:24
Oh, I love that so much. I mean, I hope anyone that's listening, come back to this and take notes because this is so good right here. And obviously, you know, in the Starter Pack, you have all the media contacts, but I do agree I actually, what I started to do now and tell my students is, the pitch. Instead of like, here are the three things I can talk about, or here are the questions I can answer. So you're basically going even one step above it. And so for me, it would be like, How can any founder get on a podcast? Or what should you say in the first paragraph? So think about it that way. I think that even makes it even closer to a yes. What are some of the things that people do that they should stop doing?
Travis Albritton 21:05
So when it comes to pitching podcasts, do not, as much as possible, hide the fact that you're pitching more than one. There's nothing more impersonal than sending a templated email where you like, misspell the person's name. Or you left out a field and it has like podcast name here in parentheses. Just don't do that. All right. And so what I do to guard against that is I have a general flow for how my pitches go. I write each one individually, uniquely. The reason I do that is, so that way, it actually is something that came from my hands. It's actually a personal email or direct message that I sent to somebody, and it has a certain structure to it. But I never want the person to get the impression that I'm just copying and pasting something and blasting it out to a thousand people. I always want them to feel like, 'No, I'm making an intentional effort to reach out to you, specifically you directly. Because that's how valuable you are, and the amount of respect that I give to you and your time and your resources. And so even though I start with a basic structure for how I pitch, and how I lead it, and the things that I make sure to keep in there, I always write it from scratch. That is to keep that personal element, and also because the way you communicate changes over time. So a template you use six months ago might not be as good as the one you would write today. And as you write them, you'll get better at it. It'll be easier to remember. 'Okay, here are the five things I want to say.' You can knock it out in a couple of minutes. But that's one thing that's a huge turn off for the podcast host when it's very obvious that you're just copying and pasting from a template, and that you don't actually have any context about the show. You actually haven't listened to any episodes. You don't know the host is. You're just hoping to get a yes, but you're not actually taking the time on the front end to make sure that you would be a good guest for them. Now, they're feeling like they have to do a bunch of work to decide, are you worth bringing you on? Because it's pretty clear that you're sending this to a bunch of people.
Gloria Chou 23:04
Exactly. I mean, just from the pitches I get. And I honestly think even compliments are like over weighted like anyone can do that. I think what's even better is if you actually leave a review, and you take a screenshot is what one of our PR starter pack members, Elon Yin says as well. And it's a great hack is like 99.9% of people, they don't leave a review, let alone like actually put a screenshot of like what what you did. So you're thinking of making a compliment? Why not just go ahead and do a review. And listen, you don't have to listen to every single episode. You don't even have to listen to a full episode. It could be 15 minutes of one. But if you've been browsing through what they've who they've interviewed, and you're pitching yourself, and they just interviewed someone who says the exact same thing, probably not a great idea. Right?
Travis Albritton 23:47
Right, exactly. It's just at the end of the day, you're trying to connect with a human being on the other side, right? It's, we can get so bogged down in the tactics and the strategies and the hacks and and forget that, on the other side of that email is a person trying to make a decision. And so if you can instead focus on how do I serve this person, and help them reach their goals for this podcast, then that goes a lot. That goes a long way in getting the yes that you're looking for.
Gloria Chou 24:13
Yeah, I definitely want to get into like once you're invited, what do you do, but before that, I have a few questions. One is, do you pitch with the first person? Or does it make you sound more prestigious? If you have like, I'm pitching on so and so's behalf?
Travis Albritton 24:26
Oh, no, that's another dead giveaway. I don't say yes to any of those pitches. And it's fair to say.
Gloria Chou 24:34
You don't like it when people are like I'm representing Mr. something.
Travis Albritton 24:37
No, it gives the impression that it's not even worth your time to send this email. It's the impression that it gives. If you're, Elon Musk, and somebody says, Hey, I'm Elon Musk's personal podcast interview coordinator. That's different, then, hey, I represent this person you'd never heard of before, but I promise they're going to be a great guest. It's like, according to who? It's clear that they're paying you to send this email. So any kind of authenticity or connection that could have been there is immediately gone. And so I think something that not a lot of people are, I think something that can be misunderstood, is that most podcasters, if they've been doing it for a long time, their show becomes almost like, like a child to them. Like it becomes a part of them, it becomes a part of their identity, that not only are they a podcaster, but they really draw deep emotional, and purpose driven satisfaction from the show that they create. And so when you are showing up and saying, I represent x person, or there is an inkling that you're not actually sincere in your request to want to help them, it's like, it just rings hollow, right. And so if at the end of the day, the whole goal is to get on this podcast, you want to remove as many of those signals, like I tell the podcast host, I'm not actually authentically wanting to serve you and your audience. I'm running some scheme, using some template using some agency to feel does seem bigger than I am. What they want to know is, is the person I'm going to have on my show, worth my time, I'm not going to connect with them, are they going to be a great guest? Is it going to be a very free flowing conversation where we get along nicely, and we can throw ideas back and forth? Those are the things they're looking for. They're not looking for? How big are you if they've never heard of you before?
Gloria Chou 26:32
Yeah, I love that so much. By the way, as you were saying, unless you're Elon Musk, I'm gonna try that. I'm gonna try to get on the biggest podcast and see if that works. But yeah, it's so funny because before I started my own podcast, I was just pitching. And so my podcast template always had the value in mind because I didn't know anyone. The only way to convince someone since I am a nobody, and I'm still really a nobody is to this to lead with that value. But I'm mind blown with how bad the pitches are. Like, I thought that at this juncture, with the amount of internet resources and training that people would be less all serving, but I still get pitches every single day from a random person pitching a person who's launching their book, and literally is like he's available for interviews on this day. I don't even know who he is, let alone his book. So I'm just shocked at how bad it is. And it's really, if you just take five minutes to watch just one training, whether it's you know, from my masterclass or listen to this episode, you will be above the rest, I promise you. Okay. So that's one thing. Another thing is a follow up. A lot of people are like, Oh, I sent this really great pitch. Nobody responded, it's dead in the water. What do we do?
Travis Albritton 27:46
Oh, 100%, you follow up. There's a number of ways you can do it. If it's really important to you to get on this podcast, follow up until you get an answer. So that could be a weekly cadence. It could be a couple times a week, whatever you think is appropriate for the person you're trying to reach. If they're super busy, actually follow up more than if you're less busy because you have more chances to be at the top of their inbox when they happen open their email, especially if they're not an inbox zero person, where they have you know, 200,000 unread emails. It's like you're just now a part of the collection. But the follow up is key. Just because they don't reach back out to you, it doesn't mean they're not interested. It might just mean that your request came at a time they were they weren't able to address it. They weren't able to answer it. They read it on the go. And they're like, 'Oh, I'll get back to that person later.' Continue to follow up until you get an answer. Yes or no. It could be 'Hey, we're totally booked up.' Our next availability's in a couple of months. Would that be okay? That's a very common answer for podcasters that are kind of on their game and have their interview scheduled out. Like there's a buddy of mine who has interviews, and then the episode is gonna come out for like six to eight months later because he's so ahead of it. And so, that will happen sometimes. But then often, it's just like, 'Hey, thanks for reaching out. I appreciate the tenacity. But, you know, I'm not looking for a guest to talk about x at this time.' And that's fine, too. Just continue to reach out until you get an answer one way or the other and then if they say yes, or if they say not yet, then you continue to pursue that. If they say no, then you say 'thank you for your time.' And you just you continue to hit the grind and keep reaching out.
Gloria Chou 29:20
Now you have seen some of the best podcasts and you've seen some of the worst podcasts. You've worked at Buzzsprout brought with over 100,000 or 115,000 podcast. So you knowwhat is a good guest, first of all, and what do the most successful founders do to keep that podcast working for them even past the air date? So can you tell us like what do the most successful people do to get the most ROI from being on someone's podcast?
Travis Albritton 29:46
The number one thing that you can do is be a great guest, meaning when you're on the show, have it be the best episode that person has ever had. Because I think that's the thing that's missed. Again, it goes back to what are the hacks? What are the strategies? What are the tips for the shortcuts? The silver bullets that nobody's talking about where you can take a podcast and convert it into X amount of dollars. But if the content is poor, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what strategy you use. And so I think the first thing that you have to do is just commit to being the best guests you possibly can. That might be preparing quite a bit before you go on the show. Thinking through like, what kinds of questions they could ask you and and what kind of answers you would give or what kind of stories you could share that would really connect with that audience. And then on the back end of that, whenever you are a guest, really commit to sharing that episode with your audience. Even if your audience is 10 people. So I think I think that goes a long way with podcast hosts is, it's very rare for a podcast guest to promote the episode they're on. They might feel like, well, 'Why? They were a guest on the show. Why would they not share it? Because again, people are busy. So you know, probably the most popular podcast guests in the world is Richard Branson, Sir Richard Branson. He's on everyone's podcast because he loves to say yes to podcasting. How many has he promoted on his personal Twitter account? Zero, because the man is running like a thousand different companies. And so if you can just go the extra mile and promote the episode that you're on, whether it's creating some social media content in Canva, posting a link to it on Twitter, or Instagram, in your bio. What that tells the podcast host is I am grateful that you gave me an opportunity to be on your show. I want to share your audience with my audience to help you. And what that'll do is that'll kick in on the podcast host's mind that, number one, this is a guest I want to have back because now they are wanting to actually help me grow the audience of my show, which is what I care about. And then two, that's going to kick up in their minds, like, 'Okay, I need to ride the wave of what my guest is doing to promote this episode. If I just reshare their posts, or take the image they used and use it on my own social media platforms, then now you're encouraging them to promote their own show.' It just happens to be the episode that you were on. And so going that extra mile and saying, 'Hey, I'm gonna say thank you for being on the show by actually sharing it.' You'd be surprised how few podcast guests actually do that. It's really surprising actually.
Gloria Chou 32:14
I know that for myself. I'm always trying to get them to share. And I'm like, wow can you not? It's beautifully edited. The reels are doing great, so I can understand when people do share, it just makes me so happy as well. So you've definitely confirmed that. You've given us so many tips and gems, and for anyone listening, I'm sure they're taking tons of notes. I want to talk about where the kind of the podcast industry is headed, whether it's a vehicle for marketing vehicle for branding. Do you have any thoughts about that since you're an industry insider?
Travis Albritton 32:48
Yeah. So I think one of the things that is becoming really clear is that podcasting isn't going anywhere. There's been a couple of times where people not in the podcasting industry, per se, but in the media have said like, 'Oh, is this the end of podcasting?' So the most recent one was Clubhouse. Clubhouse was a huge, like live audio experience app that was iOS invite only, that was really big during COVID. And it was just exploding. And everyone's like, 'Wow, maybe this is the end of podcasting.' Then, Clubhouse is basically non- existent now and podcasting is still growing. And then Facebook Live Audio and Twitter Spaces and YouTube and Amazon getting in the mix, there's all this speculation about like the end of podcasting. Podcasting is here to stay. If you think about it, it's radio that you get to choose what the programming is, and you can listen to it whenever you want. Like that is everyone's ideal radio station, And that's what podcasts are. The fact that you can listen to a show about homeschooling, as a homeschooling mom or dad, it's like, that's really valuable. You're not going to pick that up on the FM airwaves. The fact that you can listen to it while you're driving somewhere, then that'll be a YouTube video that you're watching, or a blog that you're reading. Passive consumption means that people are listening to podcasts when they can't consume any other kind of medium. And so it's really uniquely positioned to be here for a very long time. Number one. And then the other thing that I'm seeing, just looking at the macro data for podcasts in general, is that the podcasts that succeed are simply the ones that consistently publish the longest. So it's not necessarily about how long the episode is. It's not about how large your audience is. It's how long have you been doing it is the number one factor in how large an audience is for a podcast, and whether it's been successful or not. And so that can be useful, one if you're looking for podcasts to be a guest on and then two, if you're trying to think through like should I launch a podcast this year? Should I wait another year? Should I do YouTube instead? The barrier for entry for podcasting is so low. I really think everyone, especially if you're a business person should give it a try. Even if you just recruit your teeage cousin. It's gonna be like, 'Hey, I'll give you five bucks to edit some audio files and upload them to Buzzsprout.' Just go for it and see what it's like because the opportunity to build an audience that you have a direct connection with, you're not fighting with a social media algorithm to get in front of them every single week. Every time you publish an episode they get it. It's so high that it really is one of these things where people are gonna look back and have a lot of regret if they didn't get in early enough. And I really think that's the key. Podcasting has been around long enough to show that it's not a phase. It's not something that's going away. And it's something that's really valuable if you want to build an audience online because you have that direct connection. And you don't lose that if an algorithm decides they don't like your TikTok dances anymore.
Gloria Chou 35:47
Yeah, I mean, it works. I just started a few months ago, and I already see the ROI. There's a graphic wheel that someone said it's like a pie chart of the people who buy from you. And it's something like 80% of them are silent lurkers, so you're not going to know that they're listening. They're listening, but they are listening week after week, even if they don't comment. So do it for those people. Another thing I love about podcast, I don't think we've touched on is, it's a great way to build relationships with people who maybe seems like they're out of your league. So I'll give you an example. If there was like a top entrepreneur, and I want to get onto their podcast, and they have millions of followers, it might take some time. But the easiest way is for me to invite them onto my podcast for them to see how genuine I am. For them to see that I really care. How much of a yes do you think I'm gonna get next time if I go back to them and say, I'd love to be on your podcast? It's gonna be like 10 times more effective. So that's also something I've learned as well as every time I think podcast is doing X, Y, and Z. For me, I find that it's not only doing X, Y, and Z. It's doing all these other things for me. So for example, for the way we work together is all of my content stems from the podcast. So we make reels. We make show notes. We make blogs. And it's just transformed my entire business in terms of how I think about content and how it works for me. So thank you for that. Is there any last thing that you want people to know who might be listening or the silent lurkers, who may not comment but they're listening?
Travis Albritton 37:09
I think this is something that everyone should try at least once, podcasting. If you have a business, and you're serious about marketing it online, podcasting is definitely a medium that you get a really good bang for your buck when it comes to financial resources to get started, and then time resources. Because again, you're building a small loyal audience at first, and then the audience just grows and grows and grows over time. The fact that you can do it in your bedroom, with a simple microphone that plugs into your computer or just recording into your phone. The barrier to entry is so low. I would encourage you to at least try it. There are platforms. You can do it for free, so it don't even have to cost you anything. And then I think the other really cool thing about and something you touched on, when you have a podcast, it's a lot easier to connect with higher level people because the value is now in their favor. Whereas before you're asking for a place on their podium, on their platform to get in front of their audience. But when you're offering to share them with your audience, then you're giving all the value. It's like all you have to do is show up, I'm going to tell people how awesome you are. Like who doesn't want to say yes to that? And so, I've gotten some really, really big guests that I never thought that I would get simply because I said 'Hey, I love what you do. I would love to pick your brain and ask you 1,2,3. This is what my podcast is. This is what it's about. I'm super flexible. Do you have 30 minutes or we could talk about the thing that I already know that you'd love to talk about? That is so powerful, incredibly influential, incredibly effective. And do you know how many of them asked how large my audience is?
Gloria Chou 38:45
How many?
Travis Albritton 38:45
Out of the six years I've been doing guest podcasting, I've only had one person ask how large my audience is.
Gloria Chou 38:51
That is just shocking. Yeah, you would think that it's all about numbers, but people love talking about themselves, especially when you are assuming all the production and the time and you have an audience. And the light bulb just popped in my head, which is another benefit of podcasting, which is already on the list of all the other ones is it's basically like paying $10,000 what people would charge to speak or be on a panel, but you get to pick their brain for free and it's just you and them. So think about all the experts who never would maybe give you the time of day if you email them. But if you had a podcast and you allow them to come on to this virtual stage with you, you not only did you not have to pay them a speaking fee, you get to build that connection. So that is 10 times more powerful than paying for someone to pick their brain on like a consulting call.
Travis Albritton 39:41
So much of building a business's relationships. It's not necessarily like use this tactic or strategy. It's, who are you talking to that's connected to the people that you care about. And so when you're able to get connected with people that have a lot of influence in the spaces that you want to be swimming in and become known in, that's really huge. So when they're typing that person's name into a podcast listening app and your show pops up, immediately, they're gonna listen to that not because they know who you are but because they know who they are. Now that builds authority and builds influence for your show, and for whatever kind of brand you're trying to establish. And so I think, being able to have a show, no matter how small and mighty it is, if you can use that as something that's valuable to offer other people, you're gonna get a lot more yeses. It's a lot easier for somebody to say yes to being a guest on your show rather than approaching someone who has a show and convincing them why they should give you a platform for their audience. It's not that it's impossible to do, but it's a lot easier to make that value exchange really clear.
Gloria Chou 40:41
100%. Before I had my podcast, all I did was pitch on other people's podcasts. But now I realized that I do have a podcast, it becomes much easier.
Travis Albritton 40:50
I think the thing that I want to kind of land on, finish on is something that I referenced earlier, which is that there aren't actually as many active podcasts as people think that there are. So if you look at Apple or Spotify, they'll give you a range somewhere between two and four million podcasts that are listed in their directory. So two to four million options that people have. But if you actually filter those numbers based on shows that have been active for more than a month or two, that are publishing consistently, like they have an episode in the last seven to thirty days, the number shrinks dramatically. And so out of that two to 4 million podcasts, you might have 400,000 500,000, that are actually posting consistently. And then you think about all the categories that are in podcasting, whether it's news, comedy, religion, spirituality, business, marketing. So then each of those categories is a subset of that 400,000 or so. And then if you go a level below that, so like PR, for instance, how many PR podcasts do you think there are in the world? Less than a dozen, more than likely that are posting consistently. And so it's not that hard to become the number one podcast in your space, even now, even in the year 2022? And so, if you're thinking, Yeah, I'd be interested in starting a podcast. And I have a lot to say, and I know I'd be helpful for people, but there's just so many out there, there really arts, when you consider the 10s of millions of YouTube channels, and hundreds of millions of blogs that are out there. Right now, podcasting is the best way to cut through to cut through the noise and become an industry leader. Because the competition is actually really wide open, and if you just commit to sticking with it for an extended period of time, it won't be long before you rise to the top.
Gloria Chou 42:28
Oh, there you have it, folks from the industry insider. Now, I'm so glad you affirmed it. Because honestly, when I started a few months ago, I had the same exact thought. 'Gloria, there's so many big podcasters. There's so many entrepreneurs. There's so many people who speak to female entrepreneurs. There's no way I'm gonna get through to them. But you know, because you've been working with me, we've seen the numbers steadily increase, and they're very engaged audiences, and it works for people who join my program. So I cannot stress enough that there's so many limiting beliefs that we feel like it's so big, or it's too late. It's really not. And I'm so glad that I started. So how can people get started? How can people reach you? How can people work with you? If they like everything that they're hearing, which is so valuable by the way. Thank you.
Travis Albritton 43:11
Oh, well, I appreciate it. So the best way to get started is probably just go to YouTube, and type 'How To Start A Podcast.' You're gonna find a bunch of videos from people like Buzzsprout, from people like Pat Flynn, that have been doing podcasting for a long time and have these guides where they talk about gear, they talk about software you need, how to choose what to talk about, where to upload your episodes, all that kind of stuff. So, use YouTube to learn just the basics of how to start a podcast. Then if you want to get in touch with me, my email is travis@christcentered.marketing. We'll leave a link to that in the show notes because I produce this episode, and so I'll make sure that it's there, and you can just click on that. And I would love to help you answer any questions that you have about podcasting, starting your own podcast, and I'll point you in the right direction.
Gloria Chou 43:55
I will say it is the best investment I have made in my business. I cannot tell you how having a podcast has reimagined my entire content strategy. And I'm no longer like randomly posting. It's a system that repeatedly gets me results. So definitely worth the investment. For me, I didn't want to DIY just because I'm not like a tech person. It was so nice to be able to work with someone to launch a podcast. So, definitely get in touch with Travis. He produces my podcast. You can see the reels and amazing content that he produces for me. If you follow me and now you know his email, which you know it's travis@christcentered.marketing
Travis Albritton 44:33
Absolutely.
Gloria Chou 44:34
Thank you, Travis.
Travis Albritton 44:36
Yeah, thanks for having me onboard. It's been fun.
Gloria Chou 44:38
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