Episode 151: How to get into a gift guide even if you don't have a big following w/ Margaux Lushing (re-air)
It's NEVER too late to pitch for gift guides, even a few days before Christmas there are online articles about last minute gifts, so do not let this stop you from pitching your products year round! Tune in as I interview Forbes writer of gift guides and products, Margaux Lushing, as she shares the PR secrets the agencies will not tell you! From how to pitch, when to pitch, what to write, what samples (if any to send), if a big social media following is required, this episode is a must listen if you make a product and want to get featured in gift guides!
Here’s What We Cover and More:
Fun ways to get your products spotlighted in gift guides and top lists.
Why being credible in editorial spots beats paid ads any day.
When to pitch your products to editors for those seasonal gift guides.
How to tailor your pitches to match the vibes of specific writers and publications.
Common pitch blunders to dodge, like being too pushy or bland.
Why building bonds with writers and editors can score you future wins.
Tips for crafting killer, to-the-point email pitches.
How sending product samples can boost your media coverage.
How to approach influencers vs. journalists differently.
Sure, pitching can feel a bit nerve-wracking at first, but it’s totally a skill you can master, and the payoff? Amazing media coverage for your business! By keeping it real, getting super specific, and building true connections, founders can seriously up their chances of landing spots in gift guides and other cool editorial features.
Product Businesses! Download my free HOW TO GET INTO A GIFT GUIDE/PRODUCT ROUND UP roadmap for free HERE to get more sales and traffic to your site this season.
If you want to land your first feature for free without any connections, I want to invite you to watch my PR Secrets Masterclass, where I reveal the exact methods thousands of bootstrapping small businesses use to hack their own PR and go from unknown to being a credible and sought-after industry expert. Register now at www.gloriachoupr.com/masterclass.
Resources Mentioned:
Join the PR Secrets Masterclass
Join the Small Biz PR Pros Facebook Group
DM the word “PITCH” to us on Instagram to get a pitching freebie https://www.instagram.com/gloriachoupr
Connect with Gloria Chou on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/gloriaychou
Join Gloria Chou's PR Community https://www.facebook.com/groups/428633254951941
Follow Margaux Lushing on:Forbes.com https://www.forbes.com/sites/margauxlushing/ & Well + Away https://margaux-lushing.squarespace.com/
Connect with her on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaux-lushing-9505269/
Additional Resources:
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Transcript
00:00:00 Gloria: Hey everyone, I am so excited for this episode of the Small Business PR podcast. Today I have someone that's super special and she is gonna talk all about gift guides and how to get into the most coveted thing, which is one of those best stuff list. Do you ever wonder how to get on those? So this episode, we're gonna go in and we're gonna ask all the questions about how to get into a gift guide.
00:00:19 Gloria: But first, I'd love to introduce our guest, Margaux Lushing. She is a freelance writer and travel startup founder who lives and breathes wellness and has written product roundup that includes gift guides and best-of lists for all of the top-tier outlets you've heard of, Forbes, Refinery, Well + Good, Brides, you name it. She's probably done it. So I'm so excited for her to share her expertise and so we can get the scoop on what it really takes to get into a gift guide. Thank you so much, Margaux, for being here.
00:00:45 Margaux: Thank you, Gloria.
00:00:46 Gloria: So tell me a little bit more about your experience. I see that you are a freelance writer. You've written about all of the different things. So can you introduce a little bit about your writing and this niche cause I know that doing product roundups is a little bit different than maybe, like a breaking news journalist, right?
00:01:02 Margaux: Sure, sure. Yes. Very different than my journalism colleagues on the frontlines of whatever their hard news beat is. I work on the wellness and lifestyle end of things. So hard news for me is a at-home cycling company raising some money or launching new pedals on their bike. That is more of the area that I am in.
00:01:27 Gloria: And I will say that in all of the founders that I work with mostly, beauty, wellness, this is kind of the holy grail. It's like, how do I get my product into these lists, these product roundups? But before we get into that, I wanna ask you, why is it so important to get into one? Why is it so coveted to be able to be in these product roundups, without other than, let's say, paying for an ad?
00:01:51 Margaux: It's a great question. And I think, to be super transparent, I don't have the ultimate answer. I think founders and people who look at their traffic and look at their business performance and look at how things are, say, selling over the holidays, over Valentine's Day, over Mother's Day, how things are doing and where that traffic is coming from, I think they can probably tell you better than me. All I can tell you is that I get a lot of inbound emails telling me why I should put insert product here into whichever upcoming gift guide I have.
00:02:24 Gloria: Right. And this is obviously more credible than buying an ad because you are a credible, legitimate writer. So I mean, just from a credibility point of view, I think it definitely checks all the boxes.
00:02:34 Margaux: Sure. I mean, I think we've all read ads where we roll our eyes, right? I think anyone… I think there's data all over the place about this generation, millennial generation and younger, maybe even Gen X, who we don't really take ads seriously. I think it's why a lot of advertising agencies have honestly changed the way their businesses operate because people don't respond to campaigns the way that they used to. And that third party earned, not paid for endorsement, I think goes a lot further across a lot of mediums. Be that traditional journalism, newspapers, magazines, digital, and even influencers now.
00:03:13 Gloria: Amen. That's what I'm all about here at Gloria Chou PR. So tell me a little bit more about gift guides versus regular news or podcast or something like that. Obviously, it's different because it's kind of more of a list form, but is there anything founders should know about like pitching or the timeline or even from your point of view?
00:03:31 Margaux: Sure. I think it's a great question, honestly. We could probably spend a whole hour just covering this specific question. There's many ways I can answer this. I think, in short, if we're thinking about the process and how there's a founder after inbox thinking, Oh shoot, we're launching this thing in six weeks. Okay, I've seen this writer on… We'll use Forbes as an example just because it's in my head all the time. How do I get in touch with them? How do I try to pitch them for their upcoming guide, gift best of guide, gift guide?
00:04:09 Margaux: I think, one, timing is really important. I think being able to give someone enough time, I think saying, Oh, this launch three days ago is not going to help me very much. I think also just making sure that it fits with what that reporter is writing about. I think taking the time to put together an email that is concise and respectful of time and also just being to the point is a huge, huge help.
00:04:39 Gloria: Yeah. So would you say that if you're pitching to like a gift guide or product guide versus someone who doesn't cover and covers more general news interests. Tell me more about the timeline. Should you be like, let's say it's December, 25th is a Christmas, when do the gift guides come out? And then when should people pitch before it actually gets published?
00:04:59 Margaux: Sure, sure. And I think I can go back to your other question and sort of combine this a little bit. If you have major news coming out, right? If you're launching a company, if you're raising money and you want to announce that, but it's not enough money where you have a team of 45 publicists helping you, it's still just you or you and a couple of colleagues, I think when it's a feature, when you're launching, when it's hard news, I think two weeks is great. I think different writers have different preference, but I think at least two weeks we have this coming up. We think that you'd be a great fit. We really like your column. I read this story.
00:05:34 Margaux: And if it's just news that is maybe more product-focus, you're launching a product or a product has just been performing really well. Maybe it's not a new product, but it's a product that's been out for 3 years, but all of a sudden, within the last 3 weeks, deals have gone up 1200%. That's interesting news too. And if it falls into... If it is within wellness, I'm curious to know about it.
00:05:59 Margaux: When it comes to, on the other hand, gift guides. Gloria, it's so all over the map. I swear I start getting holiday, end-of-year holiday gift guide pitches in probably May. I mean, really, really early. Not a lot. Not a lot, but I have some. There are some eager beavers who will email me in May saying, this is… I haven't even done Father's Day gift guides yet and I'm getting pitched end of year. So I don't know what the answer is. I think it's also really important to just say that I am one person, I am one freelancer, I write these for some specific outlets. Every outlet is different, every writer is different. I think pitching staff gift guides versus freelancers is also different. So that is my preface to my timeline answer.
00:06:46 Margaux: But I think, for me, starting... I think between four to six weeks out from a given holiday, maybe four to eight weeks out from a given holiday, for me, is a sweet spot. I think that always differs. And that's why I think if you're... As a founder, you're thinking you're going to reach out to some writers to ask about this. I think it's totally fine to be a little bit more casual. Hey, I wanted to pitch this for holiday. I don't know if you're working on that yet, or if you're working on any other roundups or any other stories for which this might fit, but this is my product. And maybe it is too early for gift guides, which I don't know. I tend to work a little more last minute so it probably is a little early for me, but I may be coincidentally working on a story for which that product might fit perfectly. That is maybe a best of list about something else or a different kind of story that could fit. And sometimes it happens, I think more frequently than you would imagine that a pitch aligns to the story I'm already working on that is outside of a traditional gift guide.
00:07:47 Gloria: And this is something I always say too, is like, don't be afraid to put your name in the hat because you're gonna be tasked with something and then you're gonna go back to your inbox, whether it be one month or three months, and you might do a quick search. Is that right?
00:07:58 Margaux: Always. Always. I'm always going in my inbox. I'm always like, why did I open that email when I was just waking up really early in the morning? Someone sent it from the East Coast. I'm on the West Coast. I looked at it with one eye and I thought, I need to go back to this. This is a good fit. I don't hear from them again. There was just that one email. I forget about it. And then three months later, I'm working on something else. Oh, yeah. What was that? And I try just go into my email and try as best as I can to find that. So yes, I do go back in time often.
00:08:30 Gloria: I'm so glad you said it because for so many small business entrepreneurs who cannot afford an agency, they don't have the PR experience or the experience to be like, I'm gonna just keep pitching all day, every day, right? It's not their natural thing to do. So even sending that one email can be super scary, but you're saying that you really should pitch and pitch often, as long as you're not being super demanding about it, you should follow up. I mean, do you think most of your stories that you actually write about happen to be people who happen to follow up with you more and just remind you like, hey, we're here.
00:09:01 Margaux: That's a great question. Honestly, it might just depend on my bandwidth. Maybe sometimes I see something and I mean to get back to when I don't because I'm really busy. And sometimes it's that all of that reminds me, Oh, shoot, that is really great. That is a perfect fit. Other times I am actively working on something, something comes into my inbox and within two minutes, I'm like, oh my gosh, thank you so much for your perfect timing and perfect product. This is very helpful.
00:09:25 Gloria: So pitch early, pitch often. You never know when you're gonna go back into your inbox. Good. I'm glad that we're aligned there. So now let's actually get into the actionable steps. So let's say I am a clean beauty founder or I made some yoga mat spray, let's say, cause you're in wellness. I have no idea how to even pitch an editor. I've never sent an email to an editor. I don't know any editors. I don't know any writers. I don't know how to find them. What are the steps that I should take to even start this journey of being considered to be on a gift guide?
00:09:56 Margaux: Sure. I think a way of looking at it for founders perhaps might be it just takes time. There really is no shortcut, especially in the beginning. It will get easier. It will get faster eventually. I assume that many or most people will be able to have a budget to hire a team to take this off of their plate. But in those early stages, you need to put in the time to find five, 10 writers who really align well with your product. Write down their names, write down their outlets, write down recent stories linked to them so they're fresh in your memory. I think that is the most important first step.
00:10:35 Margaux: Because even if someone used to work, your friend, used to work with an agency, they gave you those list from three years ago and you have a list of 300 names you can just blast it out, I would say that chances are that list of five to 10 people that you spent maybe four hours on, maybe a whole day on, maybe an hour if you're really fast and good at this. That would probably be more valuable than that list that someone shared of 300 names that you have no personal connection to.
00:11:08 Gloria: Right. Or from three years ago. So I think it's important to have it updated and know what they cover. They're about me. I mean, you can tell a lot about a journalist by their profile about what they write about. So I always say, don't pitch your leather bag, handbag line to someone who is a vegan, you know?
00:11:28 Margaux: I know. Well, Gloria, I've shared with you. I mean, I get plenty of pitches all the time. I am your vegan example and I get a lot of pitches about cheese, about leather, about bacon, about a new jerky company that's not mushroom jerky, like traditional jerky. And I almost feel badly because they could be spending their time better on somebody else.
00:11:51 Gloria: Right. Or actually just spending the five more minutes to just do a quick search to see what you cover. And they would know you don't cover cheese or really edible things anyways. You cover wellness and travel. So that's another thing too.
00:12:04 Margaux: I think that's really the most important, is having a great list. And then we can get more into the contents of the email. But I think that that list is really the foundation and just being able to nurture those relationships. I mean, I think that's the most important thing.
00:12:19 Gloria: Yeah. And I always say it's a relationship. In my starter pack, I give them the tools, but I really want them to take a long term view, because if you can actually build a relationship with someone, that is gonna yield such higher dividends, right? Even if it's one story or three stories, or maybe they'll introduce you to someone else, it just it keeps on giving. I think having that mentality is so good. So I wanna get into the actual pitching do's and don'ts. And I think it comes a lot from, like what I said about the intention. What's an example of a bad pitch, whether it's just the wrong tone or the wrong energy, or actually the contents of the email is just straight up not a good fit?
00:12: 57 Margaux: Okay. It's a long list. The do's is a long list too, but the don'ts is a long list. Okay. I know we have briefly talked about this before. So I'm gonna try to remember as much as I can. But I think, I mean, things that I've just... I'll start with things that I've just seen today in my inbox. One is telling me that they can offer my readers 15% off of their next purchase. I think that is perhaps a good thing to share with a blogger, but as someone who writes for publications that are not blogs, I think that it's not something that is of interest. And it takes up time. And if that's toward the top of the email, then it's not helpful.
00:13:44 Margaux: I think the other thing is not linking to the product. Telling me how great something is and then not linking to it. I feel like that's such an easy one. And maybe people do that accidentally, but I really do see that every day. I think not, again, not taking the time to see who's the right person to be pitching and pitching the leather jacket to the vegan. I think that's another one or pitching, I don't know, a new car part to someone who covers clean beauty. I think that's a big one.
00:14:22 Margaux: I think other don’ts are just copying and pasting a press lease. If it's big enough news, if really like, if someone just got $200 million for their clean beauty startup and that they just launched two months ago from the most important VCs, okay, maybe I'll open it because that's really hugely impressive. But if it's a small startup, I think it really needs to be tailored. It really helps to be tailored to that person. And I would say for the body of the email and the subject line too. I think a subject line that... shows that you know who you're pitching and you know what that work looks like. Sometimes even people put my name in the subject line. I think that helps.
00:15:02 Gloria: So in terms of the gift guide subject line, what like, what are some good examples of good gift guide subject lines and bad ones?
00:15:09 Margaux: Okay. So I think the short answer is going back to what we were talking about earlier, anything that when I'm scrambling and I have like three days to put one together and I'm like, oops. I know I saw that email somewhere that seemed like a good one, and I'll put it in my email search for it to come up in a subject line. So anything that feels like I can easily search for it in the subject line is great. Anything that is specific enough and isn't salesy. And if it's, you know a new, clean beauty, I know that was the example you were using earlier, a new talc-free clean beauty mineral powder that has SPF that comes in some beautifully packaged thing for holiday, be clear about what that is in a subject line.
00:15:55 Margaux: Or what else? The yoga mat cleaner spray. I think if it's from a great brand, it could be the first yoga spray by this brand or anything that's really, really specific so I can understand what the audience is, what the product is, who it's for.
00:16:13 GLoria: Yeah, I mean, you've given us so much. I hope people are taking notes by the way, because you're just dropping gem after gem. So for example, like, like rate this headline, okay.
00:16:23 Margaux: Fun game.
00:16:24 Gloria: Okay, gift guides, semicolon, best, best gifts for the best gifts for pregnant moms under $50.
00:16:33 Margaux: I think...
00:16:34 Gloria: Is this specific enough or not?
00:16:35 Margaux: I think it can be good. But if, if that's what it is, I'm assuming that's coming from an agency. And there's like five to eight products in that email. If it's someone who has something that is $45 for that person, I think if they say what it is, like this is the best, you know, best thing or first insert thing here, especially loved by this type of person, I think that is useful because I know this is one particular product.
00:17:09 Gloria: Right. So whether it's like a belly cream or...fish oil or something like that, right?
00:17:14 Margaux: Yeah, exactly.
00:17:15 Gloria: Yeah, I definitely do believe that, like being specific and I always say this all the time. So specificity is good. Now, as you know, I have this method called the CPR method that I teach to founders who are trying to pitch and the most important thing is relevance. How much does relevance matter for a pitch, whether it's a gift guide or a not gift guide pitch?
00:17:35 Margaux: I think this is another great question. And again, like I am one person, I think other people may have different perspectives. And I think that people who work in digital and write for digital editorial outlets differ from people who work in broadcast. I think National Taco Day for me doesn't strike a chord. I'm really not going to open that up. It doesn't really help me in any way. But if someone's working at a national broadcast, if they're working with that kind of team, I think it might be a different story.
00:18:06 Margaux: So I think being specific and seasonal, I think can help. I guess there's more risk, sure, because chances are that it's not going to be the exact right thing. But that right thing might come up in the future. But if it is the right thing, and things align, then it makes it so much easier to just say yes. And I can probably pull a lot of information directly from that first email. One email is never enough. I mean, it's going to take some back and forth. But I think that's worth the risk because you're never going to be everything to everybody. You're never going to... It's not going to be...the perfect gift for every single person in your life and every single gift guide and every single media outlet. It's never going to happen.
00:18:47 Gloria: Yeah. Yeah, I appreciate that. One thing you also mentioned earlier is like, don't be salesy. Don't send me like a mass email that is 15% off to my readers. And first of all, we never see that in like a Forbes refiner anyways. So what do you have to say about...like the tone of it, like what is the type of writing that makes it sound like they're demanding or dictating? And what would like, I feel like it's kind of a balance, right? Because they are obviously talking about themselves and the product. So how can you strike a balance between being direct about, I want this to be featured and then not dictating or demanding?
00:19:21 Margaux: I think it's the answer is really to just be a person. Like I understand. I interview founders a lot. I work with a lot of founders. I email with a lot of founders. It's hard. You are stressed. You are deeply passionate about your product. I know they're talking to different types of audiences all the time. I would say it's somewhere in between talking to a new hire, an investor over a cup of coffee and talking to their, you know, their mom. You know what I mean? Like, be a person. Be direct. It's probably not the first time I've heard this story.
00:19:57 Margaux: You know, no matter… what it is. I mean I'm sure, I’m sure there's someone you know listening now or a client of yours who really does have the most unique story. But it's rare that I get that. And if it's a roundup, it's not really about the story. It's really about the product. It doesn't really matter how it got there. So yeah, just be human. I really don't think there's... I mean, I'm sure there's a limit to how vulnerable you should be in an email. But even if it's like, hey…”I read your Mother's Day stories, I read your Father's Day stories. I saw that you covered sexiest sustainable gifts for Valentine's Day.
00:20:35 Margaux: I just launched a new... I don't know what it is. Sustainable... A vegan sustainable purse line. And I think it would be perfect if you're working on any gift guides that include this. Honestly, this is the first time I've ever written one of these emails. I don't know what you think. Let me know if you have any questions. Here's what I've shared with, Here's what I have. I hope this helps. If there's anything else I can get you, let me know."
00:21:02 Margaux: I mean, it's fine. You don't have to pretend to be a 20-year PR agency veteran. I mean, I know you're not. And I think it's also kind of charming, I'll say, to get an email where the signature just says your name and it's your first name at your company. And you know, I sort of have an idea that you're a founder or I can look it up. And I'm like, oh, man, this is so great that it's a founder who's just pitching me...just trying and they're not making a, you know, they're just going for it. You know, they're doing a lot. I only have a lot of respect for that.
00:21:33 Gloria: Oh, thank you for saying that. Cause that's all that's what we're here to do is, is encourage people and to say, you know, we don't have anything against agencies before my community of small business owners, it's just not feasible. Right. So what do you have to say about kind of learning how to pitch and doing this themselves, because so many founders, their biggest roadblock is I know I'm doing something great, but I can't afford an agency. So I guess I just don't do PR. I guess I just will never get featured until I can hire an agency. And I think, I don't think that that's right. I think there's got to be a way for them to still get featured.
00:22:07 Margaux: Sure. I mean, I'm sure there are some sensitive industries, right? Where there is when there's legal liability or there's FDA liability where it really is, it really is difficult to be able to tell that story. And if it's healthcare or medicine. I understand sensitivity. If it's a new a water bottle, then there's nothing to be sensitive about. And just assume you're gonna hear back from like 2% of the people that you're emailing. And if you hear back from more, be really delighted about it. But I don't think that anyone needs to wait to hire that agency until they have enough funding to be able to do that. I also think that if you can... find the bandwidth to spend some time on PR, I think you'll end up learning so much about how everything works. So when the time does come to be able to hire that agency, you'll know so much more.
00:23:01 Margaux: You know you'll be such a better, you’ll be better at that RFP. You'll be a better PR agency manager, or you'll be able to better help your marketing team or PR team manage that agency. I think the other part of this is I think a lot of founders…They go into it knowing, I'm going to have to spend a lot of time learning how to do eCommerce. I’m gonna, I know I have to spend a lot of time knowing how to hire. I need to understand how basic AdWords works. And but I don't think they feel the same way about PR. I think they can put it off or have someone junior do it or they don't know and so they give up. I think take a weekend, put that list together, send some emails and you'll learn. If nothing else, you'll learn.
00:23:44 Margaux: I think the other, the other side of it is not taking the time and just sending something out to a list and hoping isn't going to help. And I think the other thing that's really tricky that I have seen a lot in the past is people who have a limited budget and they say, Oh, well, you know, this $5,000 I have a month for my entire marketing budget will only get me this much in terms of marketing or pay-per-click, but I can actually get this agency...to do one month of work, I'm going to put my entire budget into this agency. And if anything doesn't go exactly as we hope, then my money's gone and I have nothing to show for it. So I think it's also just a huge risk putting so much of, such a big percentage of a budget into PR so early on, I think it just is super high risk.
00:24:37 Gloria: Yeah. I always say like, you know, in the day of like the pandemic world, we're not, we’re not going to fancy cocktail parties with editors.You know, your chances of getting into the inbox is just as much as the other one. And correct me if I'm wrong, but when you're reading the email, you don't feel more impressed if someone says, my client versus my product, right?
00:24:57 Margaux: Not more, not more impressed at all. I will say that I do have many trusted PR colleagues who I've known for years and I know that their clients are great and they know how I...how I work, they know how to best work with me. And I think those are very trusted sources. It's a small percentage of what I get in my inbox each day. And as I said earlier, I have so much respect for founders who do it the right way, not founders who are like, I'm just going to talk to this writer like I sell on... Like I talk on Instagram or like I'm just going to copy and paste from my investor deck because it's there. Like, it’s just, I'm just not gonna keep opening those emails because I know that they don't really... They haven't really...try to meet me where I am and try to help me with my work.
00:25:38 Margaux: Because ultimately, how are they helping me? I'm trying to pump these stories out. I'm trying to come up with the best gift guide I can to help readers as much as possible. So if they're showing me to help a reader, that's great. If they're just popping and pasting something that says, this is the best ever, 15% off, share with your followers, then it's just, it's not helping me. It's definitely not helping the readers. I'm not gonna expose.
00:26:02 Gloria: Yeah, and I always say, Yes. And I always say, you're a vessel of information. You are that person that's able to carry that story, but you know, the founders are not selling to you, so they shouldn't have to convince you. You know, so I think a lot of times founders forget that, that like, you're not actually selling to the journalists and also that the email is just literally the point of a conversation. It starts a conversation. It's not going to be the full story. And a lot of times founders try to write the story, the entire story in the pitch. Do you have something to say about that as well? Where they're like, this massive email.
00:26:38 Margaux: It just makes me feel bad. I get these emails where someone's written a whole story and they're like, hi, does this work for you? It's not maybe one day. So far, it has not worked. It has not worked for me. But yes, it’s about the readers and I do think the other thing that you made me think of is I also am not new to wellness. So someone's working on a wellness product. And maybe they came from a completely different industry. And they've been working in wellness for 18 months. And I've been doing this for years and years. I also don't need at the beginning of an email, a whole primer on why wellness matters now. I do know why wellness matters now.
00:27:21 Gloria: Yep. And you got to be more specific than that, right? And we keep coming back to specificity and you got to differentiate your product or it wouldn't get written up, right? So like you always say, founders have this kind of narcissist syndrome where we feel like what we're doing is the best, right? So can you... So for example, like if someone says, oh, this is like the cleanest supplement or whatever. How can we kind of chip away at that and make it more specific in a way that the editor would be like, okay, this is not just some fluffy word?
00:27:49 Margaux: Yeah. This is hard because there are friends I have who are founders or friends who are trying to help a founder friend and they're forwarding me an email saying, can you do anything with this? And the email does say, this is the best, this is the cleanest. And I sometimes in my weaker moments, I suppose, I'll say, okay, but what makes it the cleanest? What data do you have to back that up? What makes the best? What awards or data do you have to back it up? And, it sometimes, it's not going to be putting your best foot forward if that's what you're leading with because it takes up too much time. And there are other people who just are better. They get to the point and they tell me, Oh, it's 47% of this pure grade this and it's 37% of this and this hasn't been done before. This is the first time it's for sale in California, the first time it's for sale in the US. And I can get boom, boom, boom, those bullets out front. And I don't need to do as much digging.
00:28:49 Margaux: So I think I at this point, I think I've become a little... It's just hard. I know where someone's coming from when they want to say that. And maybe it does work with some audiences and maybe it works on social. But I think you just specificity is really important.
29:06 Gloria: Yeah. And it shows that you've done the work too, right? If I'm pitching you something that's cleanest supplement, if I say this is the cleanest supplement, it's kind of much lazier approach than saying this is zero sugar made with superfood from Patagonia, things like that. So...
00:29:19 Margaux: Yes. It's that. And also, because I get so many emails in my inbox, there are plenty of businesses who pitch me, this is the cleanest supplement. And in reality, it's the dirtiest supplement. But because they don't show me any data, they think I'm not going to know the difference. And there's a lot of that. There's a lot of that. There's a lot of claims that are not true because they sort of play with the language in a way. And it just there may very well be one of those emails. This is the cleanest and it actually is. But I'm not going to notice because I've gotten so many that are actually from, I'll call them dirty companies, but probably just a company who isn't that clean. It doesn't work anymore.
00:29:57 Gloria: Yeah. Be more creative with your words. I mean, come on. Like, everything is breakthrough. Everything is revolutionary. Everything is a disrupter. Let's peel away the onion. So you've given us so much insight and actionable tips from subject lines to when to send, to how to don't include an investor deck. I think you also said something about a media kit. That's one question I get asked a lot. I was like, do we even need media kits in 2021? Should they send that to you in the first email or no?
00:30:23 Margaux: I think a press kit is extremely important to have, to have on hand. I don't think it's extremely important to have on your website. I think the most important thing to have on the press section of your website is an email. Maybe that's a founder's email. Maybe that's a trusted colleague. And, maybe it's you, Gloria. I don't know who that person is. But I think all I think when at least I'm going to a website and I'm looking for more information on a product, all I want to see on the press page is someone's name.
00:30:53 Margaux: I rarely find what I need in the media kit on a website. That said, having a press kit, which to me just means a Google folder where you have images of a variety of sizes, a variety of lifestyle and product shots and orientations. I mean, I always like to use horizontal, not vertical for a web. Having that, having a press release on the launch of something is really, really important. Sometimes I do get pitches without a press release and it's just so much harder to find the information because there isn't a location where everything I need is there and then I can ask follow-up questions.
00:31:33 Margaux: I also think in a press kit, having a bio, like a real bio with real detailed information about the founders, about the team, who's the co-founder, who's this? Sometimes I feel like these titles are so confusing and co-founders are confusing and this is a co-founder, but CMO and their CEO is actually you know, sometimes it gets very confusing. So just being very clear about that. And a company backgrounder is really helpful to have too. Sometimes it's not always clear. Oh, this company came from this other company. It's a spinoff or it's under this umbrella or this is the company, but this is only their first product. And this first product is launched under this other company name. Just being able to have that in one place where I can... In two minutes. Yeah, the total lay of the land is really helpful.
00:32:18 Gloria: Yeah, but don't attach it into email unless you ask for it, right? It's kind of a second step once you're interested.
00:32:24 Margaux: And it really, I mean, it really doesn't ever have to be an attachment. It can just be a link to a Google Drive.
00:32:28 Gloria: Yeah, that's what I always say. Okay, so, so many things. Last time we talked, you also said some things. So obviously don't send the coupon code. What about another pet peeve you have when people are like, oh, like share this with your followers. So should we be careful about saying followers versus readers?
00:32:45 Margaux: Yeah, I think it's just really important to remember the distinction between influencers and journalists. And our jobs are very different. Our audiences are very different. My job isn't to take pictures of something and pretend I'm using it in my life. And when I pick it up from a pile of 20 other things that I'm doing the same thing with, I mean, I know there's wonderful influencers out there, but it's very different. I don't use coupon codes. It doesn't really help me to know that these other 3 influencers like the product and that you can share pictures of those other influencers in the product. I don't need to know that you're available on skim links or different affiliate networks. I can't do anything with it. And absolutely, if someone's like, oh, we'd appreciate it if you would share this with your followers.
00:33:40 Margaux: It just makes me think that influencers are their priority. So they write the email for the influencer and then they copy and paste it and they figure, oh, we have 10 more minutes. Let's just blast it out to a bunch of reporters as well.
00:33:50 Gloria: Yeah, no, it's definitely so, so different. And I think as social media becomes what it is, it's hard to get that line straight. But I think that's like the number one thing you need to do is like journalism is not dead. And there's legitimate journalism. And then there's like the bloggers who might be taking a commission or they might want some free merchandise. That's, you know, we definitely talked about that. And that brings me to my last question is, people are like, okay, for gift guides, do I send samples? Do I not send samples? What if I don't have money to send samples?
00:34:19 Margaux: If you're not really confident that you can put together the best written information, I think it can be really helpful and helpful for a gift guide. Sure. But I sometimes you know, there's something that either I've purchased myself in real life or have gotten temporarily as a sample and it's worked for a gift guide. But then it's proven to be useful for a future story. Or it's something that I maybe used for a gift guide and I kept using it after. And it ended up turning into a feature because it was something that I found so indispensable. And,or it'll find its way into other stories.
00:34:58 Margaux: This has happened numerous times where there's something that you know, someone pitched me for a gift guide or a sample was shared for some previous story and I ended up using it for a number of other outlets down the road that happens very frequently. So I think it can be helpful. I think it also can be helpful if the only information you have on a particular product is like one line on the product page on the website. That said, of course, if bandwidth is limited, if logistics are challenging, if you're in another country, and it's absolutely not a requirement.
00:35:32 Margaux: I think sometimes it can be helpful, especially if it's a more complicated product or if some, you know, I, a lot of founders and PR people will say to me, you know what, it sounds okay. It doesn't sound so spectacular, but please try it. Like you need to try it and you'll see. And oftentimes they're right. And it really is so special. And I wouldn't have known if they just told me this is the cleanest supplement ever.
00:35:56 Gloria: Yeah, 100%. So try to give the experience if you know, it's not feasible for you to send like a home gym for sample.
00:36:04 Margaux: Sure. Yeah, yeah. And this, yeah, we did talk about this earlier, which is absolutely if samples aren't possible or if you're not comfortable or if it's too big of a sample or, you know, of course, just I think trying to be creative and trying to help a writer experience it in some way, sometimes could be a meeting with the founder to learn more about it. Sometimes it could be something more creative. Sometimes, you know, there's an event that people do or just inviting, maybe you're doing a partnership with a brick and mortar and you can invite a writer in to experience it in some capacity. Those things can be really helpful.
00:36:40 Gloria: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for all the gems that you've dropped. And I guess, you know, out of all my last questions, I guess this is the last one is, I always tell my founders to not be afraid to reach out and follow up on social media. If they have a really good pitch, that's value driven. How do you feel about reaching out, not only on email, but also on LinkedIn, for example?
00:37:01 Margaux: Okay. When you first mentioned that you recommend a client that they reach out on LinkedIn, I was like, wow, I don't know of any other PR people who are telling their clients to do this because LinkedIn, I think, is one of the... Maybe the only area that I really just exclusively use for work. I don't really use it that often at all. So when somebody messages me on LinkedIn, I mean, when it's not a spam thing, I think it's so compelling. And whenever I think I can say confidently, whenever it's been a wellness or travel or design, like somewhere within my area that I cover, whenever it's been a founder who's reached out to me directly on LinkedIn, I think I've always ended up having a conversation with them because it does not happen very frequently. And it's been a combination of just reaching out, hold on there or following up because they're like, hey, I'm sure your inbox is crazy. I just wanted to share, you know, some info about this is what we do over here at this company.
00:38:01 Gloria: Boom, there you go. That's how you do it, founders. Thank you so much, Margaux. How can people find you and tell me a little bit more about your travel startup, how they can give you some visibility, show you some love, let us know.
00:38:11 Margaux: Thanks, Gloria. Yeah, so you can see my work for Forbes. Just you can look my name up there, I have also started, I write for a number of other publications including Brides and I've started writing first person design essays for House Beautiful, which has been very fun and very different for me. My work with Well + Away where I work with hotels to make healthy hotel rooms is a whole other subject where I just try to help hotels help their guests be as healthy as possible and anyone can email me about that stuff too. But thank you so much. This is so fun. I hope this was helpful.
00:38:53 Gloria: Thank you so much, Margaux. And for everyone that's listening, you spell your name M-A-R-G-A-U-X.
00:38:59 Margaux: Yes. Yes. But don't feel too badly if you get it wrong. If you try to pitch me, it happens every day.
00:39:05 Gloria: Thank you so much for your generosity. And thank you for being on the show. And I look forward to seeing what you build with Well and Away. And also, I'm going to be looking out for the products you pick for this year's gift guide. Let's see who makes the cut.
00:39:22 Gloria: Hey, small business hero, did you know that you can get featured for free on outlets like Forbes, the New York Times, Marie Claire, PopSugar, and so many more, even if you're not yet launched or if you don't have any connections? That's right. That's why I invite you to watch my PR Secrets Masterclass, where I reveal the exact methods thousands of bootstrapping small businesses use to hack their own PR and go from unknown to being a credible and sought after industry expert.
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