Transcript:

Speaker: [00:00:00] What’s up, small business heroes? It’s your host, Gloria Chao. We make marketing and PR super accessible for the small business underdog. Today, I have an incredible guest. She has written for all of the most famous outlets you’ve probably heard of, “Vogue,” “InStyle,” “Brides.” I’m gonna have her, go into detail, but welcome to the show, Ruby.

Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Hello. It’s so good to be here. So excited to be here.

Speaker: Well, can you- list, …

Speaker 2: list

Speaker: all the places that you’ve written for as a freelance writer?

Speaker 2: Yes. So as a freelance writer, I’ve written for “Vogue,” “Who What Wear,” “Refinery29,” “Elle,” “Marie Claire,” and a few others as well. I really like to sprinkle in everywhere I can because I feel like there’s different audiences and different readers for every category.

Speaker: So I know we’ve interviewed people who are, like, staff writers, who are commerce writers, who are beauty writers. Can you tell us the difference between all those buckets and how maybe,what you cover is a little bit different than someone who only covers beauty or commerce?

Speaker 2: So when you’re a staff writer, you’re under the umbrella specifically of the publication that you’re writing for and the audience that you’re [00:01:00] writing for. The difference I would say with freelance is maybe a product won’t make sense for, per se, “Refinery29,” but maybe it would for the “Elle” audience.

So I would say when you pitch a freelancer, you’re actually getting in more buckets than one, where your product may be a better fit for the audience.

Speaker: that’s really cool. Awesome. Yeah. when we talk about getting featured, I think a lot of people think about, gift guides, right? But I think that’s also very narrow because there’s so many different listicles and articles that they can get featured all year round.

So just, high level for people who maybe haven’t pitched before, what are some of the buckets of stories that you write that are maybe seasonal or maybe for a certain demographic that’s not just for Q4 holidays?

Speaker 2: Gift guides are obviously huge. It makes sense. A lot of people are doing their shopping during that time.

But more evergreen stories could be included of trend roundups. That’s a huge one, whether you’re looking at, maybe Hailey Bieber’s glazed donut nails, That is gonna be an opportunity to be included in a trend roundup of these different kinds of nail polishes and glitters maybe. Or if you’re talking about style, you could be looking at, right [00:02:00] now it’s summer, vacation stories, what you’re packing to take on a vacation.

That’s another way to be included in a listicle. Or you can even look at it from, a first person review. If I’m testing an LED light mask, that could be a first person review that really doesn’t have to fit into a season, but rather just information that people are looking for year-round.

Speaker: So let’s say if I have something, let’s say a beauty product like a serum, it can fit into all of those categories.

So how do I know how to approach the pitch, or do I just keep it general and have you decide what bucket it goes in?

Speaker 2: I would first look at what is trending in the space in that moment. So I think that is super important because, if it’s maybe the middle of the year, you’re not gonna pitch it for a gift guide that’s gonna go live in December, especially when the news cycles are very fast, unless you’re trying to get more of, a long lead story.

But me, I specifically focus on short lead stories. So I would really look at what’s trending and what the conversation is in that moment, then packaging it as a story that you think could work for that publication. But if the editor really wants to investigate that product further, they will also use their writer editor brain to see [00:03:00] which bucket it best fits into.

Speaker: so how do I know if someone, just by looking at their name or title, is a short lead or long lead story writer?

Speaker 2: I’d probably be looking at their work, their, the history of their work, because if they’re more so focused on print, that’s gonna be long lead. But if it’s more digital and commerce specifically, those are very fast turnarounds.

When I was at InStyle magazine, I would get assigned a story sometimes at the top of the morning, and it would be live by 5:00 PM

Speaker: Wow, okay.

Speaker 2: Yes.

Speaker: Awesome. so but then, if it’s not for a first of all, don’t you agree that you should always be pitching something that’s somewhat trending and relevant?

Isn’t that what any journalist wanna talk about if they’re writing about products?

Speaker 2: there has to be a conversation going on around it already. And, I just feel like if there are great resources that could also help with that, whether you’re going on Apple News and researching, or if you’re going even, I think you could even use AI and ChatGPT to really get some thought starters going about, what people are talking about.

Speaker: I actually interviewed someone else on this podcast who’s also a commerce writer, and she says that part of how she writes [00:04:00] stories is by doing searches herself to see- what is trending. So is that like a Google, like an SEO search, or is it just like how many hashtags are on, trending on celebrities?

Or like, what are some of the tools that you use in the newsroom to figure out-what trendy stories you should write about?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Everyone definitely has their own process of how they go about finding their trending stories. But for me, I would say my main ones would be, first of all, my own personal social media.

I try to follow, whether it’s TikTok or Instagram, I try to follow whether it’s creators or brands, not that just I’m interested in, but I know that could spark a larger conversation. So that is a first form of inspiration that I will get. Then I also check Apple News. I would try to do that like every morning, just seeing like what people are talking about.

And maybe there is a fit and maybe there’s something that sparks a larger story maybe that I haven’t thought about before. Also, competitor research. So it may be if you’re writing for, I guess I won’t name certain publications, but maybe looking at a competitor and seeing what is working for them and what are they writing about, maybe seeing if you could repackage it for your own publication or for [00:05:00] your own purpose.

Speaker: okay. there’s so many AI tools now that, that searches- for trends, but you just gave us a little nugget there, which is look at what other magazines are writing about and you’re more likely to cover, right? So is there- a point where it becomes like so saturated that nobody wants to write about it anymore, or do you think it’s always a good indication that a story might be worthy to picked up if I do see that other people are writing about it?

Speaker 2: Gloria, because I do feel like it is that sweet spot where you don’t want it overly saturated, then maybe the readers are just getting tired of seeing the same content regurgitated. So I do feel like you have to be a little bit more on the early end of it, where it’s still feeling fresh and new, or take it from an entirely new angle and entirely new perspective of why it’s still worth it to cover, even if many other publications have already covered.

Speaker: So is there like a time, So let’s say in the summertime, there’s summer beauty. When is a good time to pitch for that, and when is summer beauty just no longer, you’re not gonna accept pitches anymore for summer beauty?

Speaker 2: something I have noticed, maybe this will be helpful, is [00:06:00] we are usually starting to talk about the following season when you’re still in the current season, if that makes sense.

So when it is summer and you’re like, “Wait, why are we gonna be starting talking about like the colder months?” It’s, it seems strange, but that’s usually when we’re starting to create that content because people are gonna look for inspiration before you’re already in it. So I would say that there’s not really like a deadline for when you can pitch it and when you can’t, but just think about like the, not even just the editorial calendar, but just yourself as a consumer.

What are you looking for? And I think that should help give a nice guideline for readers and buyers and publicists and brand founders.

Speaker: Yeah. I think ideation of what is trending is hard because I think a lot of founders when, at least in my PR program, they’re so close to their product, they’re thinking about benefits and features.

But I always try to say, “Let’s just zoom out a little bit and tie what you have to like a celebrity trend or a TikTok trend or a seasonality trend.” Is there another point of relevance? So I mentioned, social media, I mentioned, celebrity, pop culture, movies, seasonality. What are some of the other ways we [00:07:00] can think about relevancy or what’s trending?

Speaker 2: Yeah. you did name a lot of them because, when it comes to like movies and television shows, that’s celebrities, you’re tying into the pop culture element, and that is huge, right? Everyone’s always thinking about pop culture. I would say another would be maybe a blank space in the industry, maybe what people are looking for or talking about, what they’re not seeing.

So sometimes I will get that from TikTok. Usually, that’s where I’m really seeing a lot of that, where you’re seeing like these conversations, so maybe tying it to that. You could even tie it to, I would say if you have a relationship with the editor or writer, you know a little bit about each other, and if there’s something specific to that editor that will make it a good story, I would say even tie into that.

Speaker: That’s also really good. What about like a contrarian point of view, right? Everyone says like- this is really good or this supplement’s really good or this whatever, and you’re saying, actually it’s the opposite.” would that be something that piques your interest?

Speaker 2: I feel like there’s two-parter to that.

So we never really wanna [00:08:00] burn bridges, with brands because, maybe there’s one product that wasn’t our favorite, but it’s all subjective, for the most part. So I feel like we don’t typically, at least I don’t in, like, my writing, I will usually not write, I would say, I guess, an article about not liking something.

But if I am not liking rather, let’s say, an ingredient as a whole, I’ll share alternatives. So I feel like that’s an opt- a way to get into that trend. So let’s say if for whatever reason, I guess talking about style, if I’m not liking the chunky necklaces, right? Let’s just say I’m not liking the chunky necklaces.

I’m, like, not gonna call out, one specific brand for a chunky style, but I am gonna say, “This isn’t really my thing. Maybe you should shop this, these delicate gold chain necklaces instead.” So I feel like that’s a very nice, healthy way to go about it without necessarily, like, bringing down another brand or, founder.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, not bringing down, but just saying “Oh- Yeah … everyone is saying that this is the best color this season, but- I’m actually finding that this is better,” right? But then, and, but then that leads me to my next question is, how much do I need data to substantiate my claim? “Oh, this is [00:09:00] trending.”

Do that it’s trending, or do I need to give you, the link or the source that, to say that this is trending?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Something that I like to do before I’m gonna call something, let’s say, like a celebrity trend, I wanna see it on at least three celebrities. So if we’re talking about, let’s just talk about, a slouchy bag.

I wanna see it on whichever celebrity it is, but I’m just gonna say, Kendall Jenner, Jennifer Lopez, and, a third one. And once I see, three, that’s my sweet spot. I’ll be like, “Okay, this is an emerging trend,” or it has already been established. I don’t need the, the publicist or the founder to share that information with me, but it is helpful if they do have it, ’cause I can already just know right off the bat if it’s worth it or not.

Speaker: Interesting. Okay. Awesome. so I like that. So in terms of, I wanna talk about inclusivity because, our founders are from all over the world. Some of them, English is not their first language. They’re really small business underdogs. And so a lot of what they do is by, making something in a bigger size or, something for different melanin tones.

How much of that is still a story, or do you think that’s no longer, quote-unquote, “trending,”

Speaker 2: [00:10:00] I definitely think there’s still a story for it. I remember being a little girl and not… when I started wearing makeup, not finding, my shade in concealer because there was, like, light and dark, and I was like, “Whoa, what about me?”

I’m in the middle. So I definitely think it’s a story because it’s, it’s not that long ago once we started including everybody. So absolutely still a story. and I would say maybe if you wanted to add an extra edge to it, of course, find that other piece of the story that’s also important and that’s also gonna bake it and just be like, “We can’t look away.

This is, such a story.” But definitely inclusivity is huge.

Speaker: Is major. you’ve written for the biggest magazines. You’ve interviewed celebrities. You’ve interviewed, Jennifer Garner and stuff. How can a small brand who has, doesn’t have a lot of followers, who’s just starting out, how can they actually get on your radar?

Is it reviews? Is it… ‘Cause they don’t have, the celebrity power of it. So what’s the best way- … for them? Is it, do you care about that? Do you care if they have, a brand new… They have a great website, but maybe they don’t have that many followers. Do you care how many years in business?

Or do they still have a shot to get featured in these huge publications?

Speaker 2: Yeah, they [00:11:00] definitely still have a shot. I actually remember working with this one specific brand that, no one really knew about, and I was like… It was a shoe, and I was like, “I’m just in love with this shoe, and it’s so comfortable.”

And I ended up writing a feature for them that they had later came to me and said it totally changed their business, and all the celebrities wear them now. So I say that because if I believe in a product, and I do say this for a majority of writers and editors, if you believe in a product, you would be doing the audience a disservice by holding it back just because it’s not backed by a celebrity or maybe it doesn’t have, the cult following.

So absolutely, there’s still a place for it. When it comes to getting on my radar, I would say having a relationship, even if we’ve never met directly in person. But just having a relationship, maybe we’ve exchanged some emails, even, three times. It just helps me familiarize with your name, who you are, what the brand is, and that’s just setting, a good even starting point.

Speaker: Yeah. Awesome. Let’s talk about the actual nitty-gritty of pitching, ’cause on this- Yeah … show, we don’t just, we don’t just tell, we also show. And obviously, I [00:12:00] teach a lot about what to put in the subject line that has gotten founders featured. but I wanna hear from you. So I wanna talk about three things.

I wanna talk about affiliate links. A lot of people are deterred and they say, I’m not on, an A.Win or ShareASale. I’m not gonna get featured.” And I wanna hear about samples. what if someone makes- … something very expensive or a $300 pair of gold earrings. How do they go about that, right?

and follow up. So let’s first dive into affiliate links. Do they need one? Do they not need one?

Speaker 2: Okay. So totally transparent. Of course, affiliate links help. We’re in the world of commerce where it’s just… it’s a new digital age. So yes, affiliate links are very important. But no, you do not need one to be featured.

It also depends what kind of story you’re looking to be included in. There are some stories that are purely editorial, and that is separate from commerce. And purely editorial actually are not gonna be including affiliate links most of the time. For a commerce story, though, for, a gift guide or something like that, like a roundup, again, if it genuinely is a great product, again, I do think it would be doing the reader a disservice to not include it.[00:13:00]

I will also say that probably a majority of the other items included in that story are gonna have affiliate links, so it’s not gonna be that it’s, 80% non-affiliate and maybe just a few that are affiliate. It’s gonna be opposite, but definitely there’s still a place for non-affiliate

products and content.

Speaker: That’s so good. That’s really reassuring to know, ’cause our people are not- huge brands, So you did talk about affiliates. We have a lot of people get featured without ever having an affiliate. I do see that. the second one is about samples, right?

Someone who makes a bath bomb, probably more easily to offer a sample than someone who makes $300 gold earrings.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So samples definitely do play a big part in really getting to, I would say, know the product. Because let’s talk about just a pair of gold earrings, right? I may just think they’re just another pair of gold earrings, but then maybe I receive them and either I realize that they’re really great material or maybe they’re tarnishing right off the bat, right?

So I feel like that is a way to get to know the product that you just can’t know unless you’re going, unless you have the product in front of you. With that said, maybe there’s a [00:14:00] storefront, maybe there’s another way, a loan, that there’s a way that a, editor or writer can get to know the product without necessarily keeping it.

Because I also understand for small businesses, it’s difficult to just give away free product. I also think, there is a little bit of the investment side up front, but you have to decide that for your own business and what makes sense.

Speaker: So when someone gives… it’s hard to give a $300 worth of earrings, right?

Yeah. if we say sample, is it okay if they include a return shipping label, or basically if you give a sample, you basically don’t expect it back?

Speaker 2: So you would call it a loan, and I feel like that is the key difference. When, in an email, if maybe the writer is looking for, am I able to test this product?”

I would, as the publicist, just be like, “As a loan, yes. Like, how long do you think you’d need the product?” And without being like, “Hey, I need it back,” it sets it up just in a very nice, professional way that you just can’t keep this as a gift. And if the editor or writer is not interested in that, then that allows for that time of exchange right then and there.

But for the most part, I think it should be okay.

Speaker: I’m sure you get this quite often, right? When, very expensive.

Speaker 2: What do they [00:15:00] usually do? Do they give a full sample in hopes, or do they do a loan? Or you say, “I don’t need a sample, I can just, I don’t know, get like a swatch of this, I don’t know, cashmere or something.”

Speaker: what’s the best- way to go about it?

Speaker 2: Honestly, So I say that because it is across the board, and I really do think it depends on the brand itself and the kind of budget that they have allocated. I have had very well-known, big brands that everyone would know their name if I said it right now, that have been like, “This is a loan, and it’s only a loan.”

And I have had very small, artisanal, pieces, and they’re like, “You can have it. It’s a gift.” So I’ve had it across the board. I don’t think one or the other makes me feel like, I don’t like my relationship with this brand,” or, “Oh, I don’t wanna include the product.” To me, it’s just, getting to know the piece.

Sometimes I don’t even need to get to know the piece because maybe I’ve already sampled a cashmere sweater from them in the past. I don’t need to sample, three others since then. I knew it was great quality, and I still have it, so we already have that relationship, and I can already attest to the label.

Speaker: That’s so good. So now last thing I wanna talk about is-

Speaker 2: …

Speaker: follow-up. What is the right way to follow up? You get so many emails. I always say the beauty is in [00:16:00] the follow-up. It’s never a one and done. So if I send something, I feel like it’s perfect, when can I follow up, and what’s the right way to follow up?

Do I start a new thread, or do I reply on that thread with something new?

Speaker 2: Yes. So first I would say How urgent is it? If you’re potentially launching a new product that goes live on Thursday and you really want coverage Friday, like the latest, to just announce this, then of course it’s okay to follow up quicker than usual because there’s a deadline on your end.

There’s a timeline. Now, let’s pretend it’s just more of an evergreen, going back to the gold earrings, “Oh, I want you to try these gold earrings,” and, you’re just eager to hear back maybe if the editor/writer wants to cover them. For me, my inbox could very easily rack up, like 4,000 emails in a day from publicists and brands and founders and other writers that even just wanna get coffees.

So my email stacks up a lot, so what I try to do is answer my entire inbox by the end of the week. I do chip at it, every single day, but I also have my stories, that I need to write and the actual, also other [00:17:00] part of my job. So I would say a following week follow-up is usually my sweet spot, and because if I really did forget, you brought it to the back, you brought it to the top of my inbox.

Also, same thread is perfect for me because this is just a personal thing, but if I see on the side of a thread that there’s, two emails there, I’m like, “Oh, maybe I haven’t responded,” or we already have an ongoing conversation.

Speaker: The same thread. Okay. And then when they do… And what about hitting you up on Instagram or engaging with your things on Instagram so that the name gets fresh in your head, with multiple touch points?

Not in a stalker way, but- … engaging with you on multi-platforms.

Speaker 2: Yes. I love engagement. I think that is a great way to, specifically Instagram, a great way to keep in touch, whether it be with founders or publicists or brands, just to know kinda what’s going on, and a lot of publicists follow me, and I follow a lot of publicists as well, and I do think it really helps to stay top of mind.

However, when it comes to pitches specifically in my DMs, I don’t really like that just because I’m already just kinda filtering through all of that in my inbox. When I’m going to my [00:18:00] social media, which, is in a way a modern business, but also a personal space. So I totally welcome engagement and creating that relationship that way, but not necessarily direct pitching.

Speaker: I love that. Is there any other pitching- do’s and don’ts that you feel like small businesses just don’t know because, the PR agencies aren’t sharing, but it could really help them or maybe deter you from responding?

Speaker 2: Something that is very helpful is in the subject line, if you could kinda call out directly

the main point. So whether if it’s an event, right? Maybe you’re inviting me to an event, put event invite, like in all caps, and then you can add the rest of the subject line. If it’s a sample of something, put sample of whatever it is. Or even if it’s a new launch, just put new launch. I think that is a great way to be able to skim through my inbox quickly to know what it is that I’m opening up.

And even once I open up that email, quick, easy, short. It doesn’t have to be four paragraphs of like thick content right then and there, because if there’s interest, I’m gonna follow [00:19:00] up, and then we can have that greater conversation.

Speaker: Yeah. In the Accelerator, we teach a very specific way of pitching. Always lead-

with the relevance, and then, that’s like the, cross your Ts and dot your Is. So what is shipping? Yeah. Where can they get it? And then like photos. any, any, any specific nuances about like photos or sign-off? I know that you don’t like big attachments, but photos help, right?

I’m assuming. what about reviews? Does that go in- or no?

Speaker 2: So I love photos, absolutely. Because again, a lot of the time when I’m going through my email, it’s starting off as a skim before it’s a deep dive into it. So a photo is super helpful to know just immediately what I’m looking at.

Same goes for if a product is live, include the link. share that with me, and if not, if it’s under embargo, then maybe include a small folder, a few attachments of like what I can expect, ’cause that just really helps add literal color to it. When it comes to reviews, I usually do my own research when it comes to reviews if I am including it.

But if you’re including reviews just to show me that people are enjoying and really liking the product, then I think that’s more

Speaker: So [00:20:00] good. you’ve given us so much to think about, and thank you for advocating for small businesses. I always say that’s what- … helps us stay human.

how can people find you? How can people support your work?

Speaker 2: So you can find me in a few different ways. So you can find my work under Ruby McAuliffe for Dunker. You can find me just truly on Vogue, on InStyle, on Who What Wear, Refinery29. You can also access my website, which is the Ruby Brand. And then you can also follow me on Instagram, which is Ruby McAuliffe, and my Substack, which is Style Note.

Speaker: So good. Thank you so much. Yes. We always invite, amazing writers and, especially writers from diverse backgrounds to come in and coach our members as well and give them access. So we’d love to extend that invite to you as well, and we’d love to have you back on the show. And for those of you who are listening, if of a small business maker who is trying to get seen, who thinks that it’s impossible to compete with big brands, send them this episode.

we’ve really broken down so many things in an actionable way that hopefully will give you hope because, like Ruby says, small businesses absolutely can get featured. So if you are looking to get [00:21:00] into a Vogue, your dream outlet, absolutely is possible, and we’ve given you so many tips here. Thank you so much, and until next time.

Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

Speaker: that was so great. Thank you.