EPISODE 31: How to pitch to local media, national TV, and podcasts with Podcast Host Ellen Yin
It often takes just one contact in the media to change everything. The caveat being that you must provide value. You must be a reliable source, that's knowledgeable, with a service-first mentality.
By going into any media relationship with this approach, it demonstrates your worth while making it clear that you’re not out to simply grab headlines or media attention.
That one mention, or one positive contact that you make in the media, can turn into multiple features over time. So always go in with a relationship mindset.
If you’re an early stage founder, or someone that feels like, “I’m just not there yet”, you might be wondering - do my achievements warrant being highlighted by media attention?
Absolutely! Limiting yourself to the idea that you have to be the leader in your industry, or already massively successful in order to have value, discounts all the other incredible stories and angles that journalists want to tell and that their audience ultimately wants to hear about.
Along these lines, consider the angles that you can speak about on a relatable and personal level. There’s always space to throw your name in the hat if you go in with a unique view and align yourself with what the journalist (and thus their audience) actually needs.
If you’re having trouble getting responses, don’t be afraid to follow up. This includes simple hacks like using email tracking to verify your recipient is actually opening/reading your requests. Similarly, do your research on what social media channels they’re on and reach out via those platforms.
By thinking of media exposure as an investment in the long term, in the big picture of your entire business - media never goes away. Once you get a feature, that feature can pay off years down the road, in relationships and future opportunities.
Do you think the media is this huge thing that you’ll never have the time or expertise to pitch properly? Consider Ellen’s thoughts on whether it’s worth the investment.
“Do you have time to stay invisible? Because that's the reality. Visibility is like cash, is oxygen to a business. Visibility is that engine that gets things going. And people have to know about you to buy from you, or to interact and engage with your brand. So if they don't know you exist, even if you have the best product in the world, it does not matter.”
-Ellen Yin
Ellen Yin is an award winning podcaster, host of the Cubicle to CEO podcast and a seven figure entrepreneur. She actually bootstrapped her business from a $300 project to a highly profitable business, impacting 1000s of entrepreneurs worldwide.
If you are looking for ways to get featured on podcasts, in your local media, or even national TV, Ellen shares several actionable insights on how to pitch to these different media outlets and why it’s a viable marketing strategy.
Topics We Cover in This Episode:
The #1 hack to get featured on a podcast
Quick tips on structuring the perfect pitch
The best ways to get a journalist or host to open your requests
How to foster a respectful and “of service” mindset
Whether getting featured on TV is worth the effort
If you want to land your first feature for free without any connections, I want to invite you to watch my PR Secrets Masterclass where I reveal the exact methods thousands of bootstrapping small businesses use to hack their own PR and go from unknown to being a credible and sought-after industry expert. Register now at www.gloriachou.com/masterclass.
Resources Mentioned:
Listen to Ellen Yin’s Podcast - Cubicle to CEO
Find out more about Ellen - ellenyin.com
Follow Ellen on Instagram - @missellenyin
Know when your emails are opened - Mailtrack.io
Check out Rory Varden’s book - Procrastinate on Purpose
Additional Resources:
Join the Small Biz PR Pros FB group
Listen On Your Favorite Podcast Platform
Follow & Review on Apple Podcasts
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I would also appreciate it if you would leave me a review! Reviews help me make sure I am providing the content that you need! Plus, you will be entered to WIN a 1:1 pitch writing session with me where I will help you find your press-worthy angle! Click here to review, select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review”.
Here’s a glance at this episode…
[5:02] I think that when you limit yourself to this idea that I have to be the leader of my industry, or already massively successful in order to have value to give, you're discounting all the other incredible stories and angles, that journalists want to tell, that the media wants to tell, and that honestly, people want to read and hear about.
[12:31] I always go to the platform that the journalist or the media contact is most active on. You want to reach them where they're already hanging out.
[21:50] Another quick tip for podcasts pitches that will make you stand out from 99% of the people is, it's so easy to go to Apple podcasts or Spotify and leave a five star review and rating, take a screenshot and attach that to your pitch and just say, hey, I'm a genuine fan of your show, I've listened into your episodes.
[23:37] Sometimes it really is the simplest things that make the biggest difference. So do not discount how much just adding some personalization and care into your relationship building, how much that can make you stand out.
[25:58] It's important to do your research before. Especially with podcasts, really do research on the shows that you're going to be on, understand who their listeners are, and how they format their show. Make sure you actually listen to a couple episodes before you hop on.
[33:11] If you're not embarrassed by your first attempt at something, you waited too long to start.
[33:21] Always invest in people first. Never assume things about your relationships with people. Never discount people. Always make sure that you're really pouring into that, and it's not transactional.
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Ellen Yin 0:00
Do you have time to waste being invisible to your ideal customer, to your ideal, you know, whoever it is that you're trying to reach? Do you have time to stay invisible? Because that's the reality visibility is like cash is oxygen to a business visibility is that like engine that gets things going. And people have to know about you to buy from you right or to interact and engage with your brand. So if they don't know you exist, even if you have the best product in the world, it does not matter.
Gloria Chou 0:29
Everyone, I'm so excited to have Ellen Yin, on today's podcast, you might have heard of her because she is an award winning podcaster host of the cubicle to CEO podcast and a seven figure entrepreneur, she actually bootstrapped her business from a $300 project. And she's grown it to a profitable business, impacting 1000s of entrepreneurs worldwide. So welcome to the show, Ellen.
Ellen Yin 0:59
Hey, Gloria, I'm so thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me.
Gloria Chou 1:03
So I want to get into all the nitty gritty about, you know, running a podcast impacting community, and, you know, helping entrepreneurs. But first thing is you've had a lot of experience with the media. You've been on The Today Show, you've been on tons of podcasts, you've been interviewed in your local news organizations. So can you tell me a little bit about the your experience with landing media pitching and kind of the three things that you've learned about an entrepreneur pitching without an agency?
Ellen Yin 1:29
Yeah, absolutely. So to to look back at my experience with the media, we actually have to go back to college. So my very first foray into pitching myself to the media was actually in school. And my senior year, I set this ambitious goal to basically pay off all of my student loans before graduation, at the time, I had about $20,000 of student loans. And I honestly, when I set out to do this, I didn't know if it was going to be realistic for me to do that within a year because I was a full time student. And I was working also multiple jobs to you know, try to achieve this goal. So I did end up being able to do it. I paid off my last loan in May, and I graduated in June and 2016. And one of the organizations that I actually very first pitched was the Penny Hoarder, which is a huge finance media site. And I think I initially connected with this reporter, through harrow or HARO, however you pronounce that Help a Reporter Out, many people know of it. And I think I had responded to a request about just personal finance for college students in general. But she liked my story so much, that she actually went to her editor and pitch writing an entire feature just on me, which was a huge deal. Like I was not expecting that. And so that ended up being my first big feature, I mean, that that article was seen by hundreds of 1000s of people. And from there, I actually developed a relationship with that journalist and was featured, I think, two more times in different media outlets because of that one relationship. And I think that right there, just that first piece is so important to realize that once you have one contact in the media, if you can really provide value, if you can really show that you are a reliable source that you are knowledgeable and that you are of service first, rather than just trying to grab you know, headlines or media attention. That one mentioned, even if it's just a small quote, can turn into multiple features over time. So I think that's the first piece of advice I would give us to always go into any media, any media situation with that relationship mindset. So that's how I got the start in the media. And then throughout the years, you know, after college, and then now owning my business for over four years, there's been so many different opportunities to pitch the media, but a lot of those, a lot of those opportunities honestly started from relationships. And so we can talk about that a little bit more. But that's my general approach to pitching the media when you're not a publicist, or you're not hiring a publicist.
Gloria Chou 4:10
Yeah, and I think we live in this world is post pandemic world where your ability to just use LinkedIn and social media so powerful, we're not going to fancy networking events. So why have it not be you right? But I think at the at the crux of this is the mindset of an early stage founder, you know, this because your community is full of early stage founders. And it's this constant feeling of like, I'm not there yet, or I haven't achieved whatever it is, that's in my mind that I need to achieve to be featured. So can you talk a little bit about overcoming that mindset, so that, you know, founders can really be highlighted, even if they're just making, you know, jewelry in their garage?
Ellen Yin 4:48
Absolutely. Well, I think it's important to know that a success story like the oh, I've made it I'm here at the top is only one type of story right? And oftentimes, that's not even the most interesting story that the media has to share. And so I think that when you limit yourself to that this idea that I have to be the leader of my industry, or already massively successful in order to have value to give, you're discounting all the other incredible stories and angles, that journalists want to tell that the media wants to tell, and that honestly, people want to read and hear about. And so keep in mind that even if you're starting, even if you're an early stage founder, you probably know a lot more about your area of expertise, the industry that your businesses in, then the lay person, right than the average person just walking down the street. And so any story that could benefit from your insight, as a, as someone who is more involved in the day to day of that type of work, or that type of product, you are a valuable resource to the media. And furthermore, I would say that it's actually really inspiring for people to read about others who may be in a similar stage as them. So perhaps you are inspiring other early stage founders with your story. And they will be able to relate to you in a way that they may not be able to relate to, you know, say a fortune 500 startup or a billionaire Silicon Valley startup coming into into the media and sharing their story.
Gloria Chou 6:20
Yeah, I think it's so important to recognize that there are so many different buckets of media, there's local, there's mid tier, there's top tier, there's industry trade, and just knowing where your audience is, and what you're doing is so important. I think you touched upon that there. And I just did actually a podcast episode on the 10 different angles, you can pitch. So you're right. It's not just about, hey, look at me, I did something. There's also piggy backing on something in the media or giving commentary on what Amazon's doing. Maybe it's something of a contrarian point of view. For example, like I know that you Lo, you were recently featured in your state newspaper about hiring locally when everyone was hiring remote. So can you talk a little bit about that? And that and how you landed that one?
Ellen Yin 7:02
Yeah, absolutely. So I'm a subscriber to my local newspaper, because I always believe in in supporting local independent journalism. And one of the articles that I read, I can't remember exactly, you know, everything about the article, but one stat did send a stand out to me, this was towards the beginning of the pandemic, they were talking about how Oregon had just I think they we lost like 4 million jobs in a single month or something like it was something so crazy. And I was really stunned by that, you know, I'm a lifelong Oregonian. I grew up here, this is my home, I went to college here, I started my business here, I live here. And so I really felt pulled to that. And I at the time, I think when I read that I only had one, I believe I had one in state employee and a lot of other people, my team were remote like part time contractors. And so I just really felt compelled to as much as possible transition some of those part time remote, contractor roles into full time, employee team roles here in Oregon, provide health insurance, provide a you know, a good full time job for the people who work with me. And that, that mission, ended up being hiring three full time employees here in Oregon. So I actually reached out to the paper and I said, Hey, I, I saw that you guys, you know, share this really alarming stat and I this is my story of, of how I'm trying to, you know, fight against that and how I how I am making an effort to change that for the local community. And they, you know, we're really interested in that. And so they actually initially ran that. That piece as I don't op ed isn't like the right word, because it wasn't in the Op Ed section. But it was in their like Sunday, front page section. And it was from my point of view. And then from that one story, I parlayed that actually into a feature in my alumni magazine at Oregon State University, and turn that into a second feature. And then I think both of those local features led to a third local feature earlier this year, where a journalist actually reached out to me interested in the work that I was doing. So as you can see, sometimes, like I said, one thing leads into multiple things. So don't be afraid to go out and pitch yourself.
Gloria Chou 9:25
Yeah, I think a lot of people are like, Oh, well, this has been covered. Let's say someone makes a beauty butter. There's tons of beauty butters. There's no more space for me, right? And we're all about championing saying, yes, you can also, you know, throw your name in the hat. So can you talk to me a little bit about the fact that you've not only been able to cold pitch someone without knowing them? That's led to multiple other features? What was the follow up like because I think a lot of founders are like, if I don't follow up persistently, I'm not going to get featured, but it's also very uncomfortable to keep following up. So what does that relationship look like in terms of the cadence?
Ellen Yin 9:57
Yeah, I think you know, it comes back to that mindset of, you know, why are you pitching them in the first place? Are you trying to be of service? Or is this all about you? Right? If you're trying to be of service, I think that it removes that barrier of feeling like you are bothering someone, right? Because you and the journalist or you in the media outlet are sharing the same goal, you want to serve the reader. And you both believe you have an important voice or something to tell there. Right? So if you come from that perspective, and you realize, okay, how do I align myself to what this journalist needs to tell an effective story to the reader? How do I serve this media outlets reader or listener or viewer, and keep that as the end in mind? I think it removes some of those fears. As far as the cadence of follow up, honestly, it really depends, I think, you know, outlet to outlet person to person. One thing I really recommend is downloading a Google Chrome extension that allows you to see if people actually opened your email. So the one that I use is mail trap.io, there's a free version. And that is so so helpful, because, you know, it's it's a bit fruitless, right? If you're constantly following up with someone who has never even opened your email, but if you know someone has opened your email, and especially if you've seen they've opened it multiple times, right, in like a short time window, obviously, this is this is a hot email for them. Like they are opening it, they're interested for whatever reason, they haven't yet replied, but that gives you kind of a better, like, context window for okay, they open it three times within 12 hours of me sending it. Let me refresh this and bring it back to the top of their mind and see if they have any additional questions. Or if there's anything else I can offer them to, to see, you know, what, what may benefit their story?
Gloria Chou 11:41
I love that so much that I say that all the time in the PR starter pack too. It's like get get a mail, it's track extension or something. Right. Okay, so definitely, that is such a good hack. And it's totally okay to play around with the subject line to, like you said, bring it to the top of their attention. What about social media follow up afterwards? You know, like, again, I always say this in every masterclass is not just about the email. So what is your way of utilizing social media to follow up?
Ellen Yin 12:06
Yeah, I love following up with people via Instagram or LinkedIn and or both, I would say, whatever platform you're most comfortable with. But okay, I will say there's a caveat here. I usually follow up via Instagram and LinkedIn. However, if I know that there's a particular contact that I really want to get in touch with, and they're not as active on those platforms, I always go to the platform that the journalist or the media contact is most active on, so you want to reach them where they're already hanging out, right. So for a lot of journalists, that may be Twitter or something of that sort. So do your research. That's important. Number one, but also, don't be afraid to follow up on multiple platforms, you never know where someone might see it. And I even take this back to, you know, my day to day as an entrepreneur, and as a member of the media, being, you know, a podcast host, sometimes people can reach out to me multiple times on, you know, one channel, and maybe that month, I just get busy, and I don't have a chance to check that channel. But had they just reached out to me on you know, let's say, Instagram, my most active platform, I would have seen it right away. So you just never know. And I think the key to a social media follow up is to keep it short and concise. Don't regurgitate your entire pitch there. And I know GLORIA teaches this too, and the PR starter pack, it's so important to just give them like, connect, refresh their memory of like, why you're reaching out to them, and let them know, you know, I sent you an email with an I always try to say something like I sent you an email with, and I actually paste like the subject line. And then I come back from it from the angle of I wanted to let you know or give you a heads up here just in case it ended up in your spam. So if you can't find the email for any reason, please let me know. I'm happy to resend it. Just give them the benefit of the doubt. I think that that's an easy way to approach that follow up.
Gloria Chou 13:55
Yeah. And I love the energy of that email, because it's not this like, Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm bothering you. Please, please, please. It's like, Hey, I have some really interesting insight that could add to a story that you're already covering, I sent you an email on this day, let me know if you ever received the right the email is very much like you're confident in your voice. And you know, you're adding value. So you're not begging or asking. And so I'm actually,
Ellen Yin 14:19
exactly, it's almost like you're giving them that courtesy of saying, Hey, I'm trying to make this as convenient as possible for you. So I'm going to literally make it so easy for you to see this information. And I really think that like you said this is going to add value to your story.
Gloria Chou 14:33
Yeah. So I guess that brings me to my next question. A lot of the objections that a lot of the you know, PR starter pack members have or even like, even in my community, as they say they don't have time. And it's not that it's easier to do ads because it's expensive, but they just see media as this huge thing that they're like I will never have time to pitch properly. How do you reconcile with that? Oh, time objection.
Ellen Yin 14:58
I would ask a question. back, do you have time to waste being invisible to your ideal customer? To your ideal, you know, whoever it is that you're trying to reach? Do you have time to stay invisible? Because that's the reality visibility is like cash is oxygen to business visibility is that like engine that gets things going. And people have to know about you to buy from you, right, or to interact and engage with your brand. So if they don't know you exist, even if you have the best product in the world, it does not matter. And so I think media is it is a long game, right? If you're expecting to go viral overnight and end up on the front page? Well, you know, that's, that's a very unlikely scenario for most people, I think you have to realize that it's an investment of your time, yes, but it's an investment in the long term of your entire business media never goes away, once you get a feature, that feature can pay off years down the road, and not just that feature, that relationship, right can can impact your business for the better years down the road. And so I think it's really important that even if you don't feel like you have time, I would, one way I look at a lot of the tasks that I do in my business. And this is something I learned from a book by Rory Vaden called procrastinate on purpose, I highly recommend this, but I love it. He talks about this idea of filtering tasks, not only through the lens of what is important and what is urgent, but also what is significant. Meaning he asks himself, if I do this task today, does it just you know, does it just save me time today? Or does it only impact my business today? Or does it actually save me time, months and years down the line as well as impacted my business months and years down the line? And so media is kind of like that, like, it's something that you do now. But it pays off over and over and over again. And so it has significance in your business, rather than just being something that's timely or urgent?
Gloria Chou 17:01
Yeah. Oh, that that cuts so deep, I think you're gonna need to come into our Facebook group, and do a do a co hosted media session with me because you just dropped so many gems. So you know, obviously now you've been on multiple outlets and multiple platforms. I think a lot of other questions I get all the time from my members is, well, what if I decide to pivot my business or I'm still figuring out my logistics, so I'm not ready to pitch until I get everything figured out? What would you have to say to that,
Ellen Yin 17:30
I would say that you're you're going to evolve as a founder, your business is going to evolve, that's inevitable, I truly don't know a single successful business owner, founder entrepreneur, that has not changed in some way shape, or form in the last five years, if not the last one year, if not even the last month. And so I think that's just that's just part of being an entrepreneur, you're constantly iterating, right, that's what makes us problem solvers. And so, for that, to hold you back, while you're going to be waiting until the end of your life, because there's never going to be a time in your life. Hopefully, I'm hopeful actually, that you wouldn't change at all based on you know, what's happening around you. And so I think it's important to remember that your name, like your personal social capital, for lack of a better term, right your network, the connections that you have the the way people perceive who you are as a person and their trust in you that relational equity does not die, just because you change or pivot your business path, right? Like, you could literally jump into an entirely different industry, you could change your product, you could I mean, there's so many pivots that you can make, but if people trust you, and they recognize your name, that doesn't, that doesn't detract from your next venture, it actually helps your next venture. And so even if you, you know, share something in the media that one or two years from now may no longer be relevant to your current business model. If someone finds you from that article, and they hop over to your social platforms, or to your website, even if what you've done is changed, that's still someone new that is now connected to you and wants to see what you're up to now. And so don't discount that and actually see that change as an advantage, not a disadvantage.
Gloria Chou 19:24
Woof. So well said I really do believe that, you know, if you look at the seasons, if you look at ourselves, it's always evolving, it's always regenerating, I will say that media is for me, it's kind of like building a really powerful and wide bridge because you're getting a lot of people, right? You're not gonna get everybody, right. It's, it's the part of the funnel that you're gonna get a lot of people so you know, you are you've changed your business. Now you have this amazing physical space, right? But you still have the ability to say that you've been featured on X, Y and Z and that's still true. Right? So I want to remind anyone who's listening that yes, you can change Yes, you can scrap your business. You can and restart. But that authority that traffic, the visibility will always be there. So now I want to pivot a little bit, because now that you've had a lot of media success, right, you know, kind of all the tips and tricks, you also have a very successful podcast where you're getting pitch, you know, hundreds of times. So tell me a little bit about now being on that side, and what types of pitches you actually answer to and what types of pitches you're like. No way.
Ellen Yin 20:23
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I love being a podcast host. It's, I think it's one of the best relationship builder. So I host cubicle to CEO, that's our podcast, and I've been running the show for over three years now, or almost almost three years now, I should say. And it's interesting. So we do get a lot of pitches weekly. And I think the the biggest mistake I see, like, right off the bat is the subject line is always something really generic, like, I'm just going to use your name Gloria because you know, we're talking, it'll be something like, amazing guests for cubicle to CEO, Gloria Chiu, right, or something like that, where it's all about them. It's like, oh, here's this amazing guest for you. Here's their name. And that does not make me want to click right. I'm like, okay, I get hundreds of those types of pitches. Why would I click on that? I think it's better when you leave with service from the very beginning, we've talked about that's kind of a theme throughout this conversation, right? So I always suggest instead, for people to share a title such as, like, hey, like, name of the person that you're actually talking to? Can I share? You know, like, if I was talking to Gloria Hey, Gloria, can I share Small Business PR with my audience? Right? That would make me click because I'm like, Oh, you want to share my show with your audience? Yeah, like, what are you thinking? You know, what, what, what ideas do you have? So getting that initial open is so key. And then another quick tip for podcasts pitches that will make you stand out from 99% of the people is, it's so easy to go to Apple podcasts or Spotify and leave a five star review and rating, take a screenshot and attach that to your pitch and just say, Hey, I you know, I'm a genuine fan of your show, I've listened into your episodes, you know, it shows that you've done your research, and be like, I actually left you a review on, you know, on your show, attached as a screenshot, I promise you like one out of 100, or even maybe one out of 1000 people ever do that. So just by that one small action alone, you are immediately going to stand out. And at least for my team, anytime someone pitches us with a actual review, we always always at least give them the courtesy of responding whether it's a yes or no, whether it's a good fit or not, for our show, we always at least respond because they took time out of their day to support us. And so we're absolutely going to return that favor and take time out of our day to invest back into their business.
Gloria Chou 22:55
That is so powerful. And I remember you said this on the PR starter pack member call. And it was like a mic drop moment. And now I tell everyone, it is such a good hack. And now that I have my own podcast, I realized no one does that. Like no one does that. And I you know, it seems so easy like Well, duh, but like, I have people who are like, you know, really late stage startups, millions, hundreds of millions of dollars. And they still they don't do that. And I'm just very turned off when they don't. So it really like listened to what Elon said and whatever you're doing. If you have if you miss this part rewind and come back to us because this right here is probably the most important hack that you'll hear all day.
Ellen Yin 23:34
Seriously. Like Laurie said, sometimes it really is the simplest things that make the biggest difference. So you not do not discount how much just adding some personalization and care into your relationship building. How much that can make you stand out.
Gloria Chou 23:48
Yeah. Do you have any other do's and don'ts from your own experience?
Ellen Yin 23:54
Yeah, I actually wrote an entire perfect podcast pitch template. So if you guys want it DM me on Instagram, but one of the one of the tips that I have is, when you're writing your pitch email, it actually really helps the host if instead of saying like, here are the topics I can speak on, instead, kind of positioning it from the point of here are here's a sample of a few questions I could answer during our conversation and actually listing the bullet points as questions in the question form because when the host or whoever's booking guests for that show when they actually read your pitch, and they read it in question form. It's literally like they're already, like, imagining you as a guest on their show asking you this question. Right. And it brings an intrigue because when they read it in question form, oftentimes their own curiosity is piqued and they're like, Oh, that is a really juicy question. I want to know the answer to that question. I need to have Gloria on my show, because I want to hear her answer to this question. Right. So for example, like, in glorious case, if she pitched someone and she was like Here's an example of a question I could answer in your show, what are the three must have elements in your pitch, or the three must have elements to get your pitch read and responded to by a journalist? Right? Like her CPR method? If I read that question as a host, I'd be like, I don't know what those three elements are, I need to have glory on our show. Because I'm not I'm personally dying to know what those three elements are. And I know our listeners are too. So it just adds that extra element of intrigue. So that would be my other big tip.
Gloria Chou 25:30
Yeah, I love that as well. That's so good. I mean, it's, again, it all leads back to a different mindset, right, having respect for the host by leaving a review, you know, being of service by, you know, tying it to something that's not related to just you, and being confident. I think those are all all the really good things. So another question I get asked all the time is okay, Gloria. Now, I use you your methods. I've listened to Ellen's podcasts. I've been on a podcast, what do I do now? How can I make this media work for me.
Ellen Yin 25:58
So it's important to, to do your research before you especially with podcasts, really do research on the shows that you're going to be on, understand who their listeners are, and how they format their show. So make sure you actually listen into a couple episodes before you hop on. And make sure that you have a like a lead capture that you're sharing in that show that is going to resonate with that specific audience. So this, this is whether you're on a podcast, whether you're on TV, anywhere that they'll actually allow you to share one of your links, make sure you give the listener a next step for them to connect with you for you to actually capture their email information, preferably, or if that's not a possibility for them to at least connect with you on social because you don't want that that one interview to be the end of your relationship with that listener or that viewer, right? You want to continue that relationship and to foster that relationship. So make sure that you have a really solid lead magnet lead capture, to share.
Gloria Chou 27:00
Yeah, I love that. So So continuing it, make it work for you. So now you've given us so many tips, maybe you can you can share like not an awkward moment, but something that somebody did in their pitch that you're just like, Oh, I really didn't like that like, and we don't have to name any names. But I wonder like, how bad can a pitch get right?
Ellen Yin 27:17
Oh, my goodness, there's so many stories, one of the ones that makes me laugh the most honestly, are people who don't even use the right name. I can't tell you how many times I've been called Emily, or Aaron, or My name is misspelled. And it's like, oh my gosh, that's like, that's this easiest thing for you to look up and double check, right? So it all comes down. It's like that saying the devil is in the details. You must if you are pitching you must give the person that you're pitching the the time and respect that they deserve to at least call them by the right name and to make sure it's spelled correctly. And so I think that's like an immediate turnoff for anybody I know is like if you spell their name wrong, or you get them by the wrong name, it just shows that you are copying, pasting and you're not really caring to know who you're pitching. And so that is definitely the first example that pops into mind only because it happens so much more often than you would imagine it does.
Gloria Chou 28:13
Yeah. And look, we're not looking for an email that you have to type every single word like obviously, we have pitch templates, and you can copy and paste, but just give that extra 30 seconds. Make sure you don't spell the name of the show wrong either. I think a lot of times people, right. I'm sure that happened to you.
Ellen Yin 28:29
Yes. Yes. If you want to be on a media outlet, you should know the name of the media outlet. Yes.
Gloria Chou 28:35
Another question I get and now you've been on TV, but I'll probably cut podcast is, is do people watch TV anymore? Or like what is the benefit of like pitching yourself for like a show? You know? When Yeah, we're living in the age of Netflix. Yeah,
Ellen Yin 28:48
I mean, I think definitely people still watch TV. I mean, the stats don't lie, right? Even though viewership may be declining for certain types of TV, I think it's important to realize that TV is still by far one of the widest reaching media outlets and it has it holds an extra level, I think of credibility that many other outlets do not because it is so hard to get on TV. I mean, not hard as in like impossible you absolutely can get on TV, but comparatively right to other types of media outlets is probably one of the top tier outlets or types of outlets that you can get a feature in. So I would say the way I look at TV is it's a great way to get national reach if you're on national TV or regional reach and to get millions of impressions at one time. However, the quality of those impressions is not going to be as high in my opinion, unless you get like a full dedicated segment to you, right? Like if you get like a 10 minute segment, which is like so rare for any sort of TV show all about you of course that's different, but like I'm talking about, like a 32nd SOUNDBITE that those impressions are not going to be as valuable to actual growth. in your business, as a small podcast might and that's why I think it's important to realize too, like, what is the objective of you being in the media, you have to really have a clear understanding of that. If it's just greater brand recognition, or authority building, then yeah, being on TV is a great placement. However, if your goal is like, No, I want to sell more of my product, or I want to get more website visits or you know, something really specific. Sometimes it's actually in your favor, to be on a smaller platform. And, and even if you get on a podcast, where maybe they have 100 listeners, and that's not a big show, right. And you might be thinking, Oh, maybe that's not worth my time. Let me tell you, the more niche down a platform is, the more engaged those those listeners or those consumers actually are, especially if you're on a podcast, like think about this, you're literally in somebody's ear for anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour, that's a long time, that's a long time to really build a strong connection with someone. And that person is so much more likely to continue to follow your work or your business, and actually interact with you on a more meaningful level than that casual viewer who just happened to turn on the channel when you were on and heard a 32nd. Soundbite from you.
Gloria Chou 31:13
Exactly, boom. So you know, I think for TV, there are pros and cons. I think one of the other advantages is that you have video content that you can read that you can repurpose already. So just from like a social media point of view, but I do agree that it's it's a little bit more random. Whereas getting into podcasts people are searching for small business PR people are searching for how do I leave my job. And I'm going to search for Ellen yen, right. So I definitely think that it is often much more powerful when you can be with the audience when they're actually searching for you. And obviously, if you have a product, right, if you want to get into a gift guide, that could be absolutely game changing. But be careful because a lot of the TV shows have some certain agreements with whether it's affiliate commission or something like that. So you want to be kind of kind of mindful of that as well. So we're getting to the end of this episode. I mean, I could talk to you for hours and hours, you have so much experience and you just make everyone feel like, like you're so relatable right that you can speak to anyone, I think that's why you've also been able to grow in such an incredible successful businesses, because you're so relatable. So I'm so grateful that we connected, I'm so grateful that you're in our community. And I cannot wait to see where you take your business. So before we leave, do you want to leave our listeners with a few thoughts about either business growth or career transition? Or just general resilience?
Ellen Yin 32:30
Yeah, well, that's such a good question. Two things I always say to people, this is my like, go to advice, always start things before you're ready. You cannot be excellent at something without being bad at it first. And I think the sooner you accept that, right and realize that that's just the natural course of life. And, you know, it's not, it's not you, only you who you know, has to show up in that way. A quote, I always say is like, if you're not embarrassed by your first attempt at something you waited too long to start, I really live by that. So that would be advice. Number one, Advice number two is to remember that people are your greatest asset and your business, not strategies, not any sort of even media, right? The media is great. But people those relationships are truly your greatest asset. So always invest in people first. Never assume things about your relationships with people never discount people. Always make sure that you're really pouring into that, and it's not transactional. And so those are my two biggest pieces of advice.
Gloria Chou 33:34
That's so good. So where can people find you and follow you and get connected to you?
Ellen Yin 33:38
Absolutely. Well, if you are a podcast listener, then I'd love for you to come over to our show and hang out with us to my show is cubicle to CEO. So if you search anywhere you're listening to this podcast, you'll be able to find that and follow. We release new episodes every single Monday with women entrepreneurs, usually female founders. And what makes our show a bit different from other business podcasts is we don't go over someone's like general life story or general area of expertise. We actually have each of our guests select one specific case study in their business and then we deep dive into that case study. So for example, something like you know how I acquired 1000 customers with zero marketing budget or you know, something really specific where we can dive deep into that. And so I would love for you guys to come here on our show. Or if you want to just chat with me one on one. And DM me on Instagram at Miss Ellen yen or at cubicle to CEO and I would love to start a connection there.
Gloria Chou 34:34
Thank you so much for being on here. We're going to have to come come back to the show. We're gonna have to record part two, three and four of this.
Ellen Yin 34:40
Gloria. You're the best. Thank you so much for having me.