Episode 53: How to Connect with Your Audience This Holiday Season through Gift Guides with Jessica Toscano
Gift guides—they're everywhere during the holiday season!
In published magazines and web articles, businesses showcase their products through these promotional tools because that's what gift guides are best known for. They let you highlight your products, inspire your customers, and make people remember you.
But getting your products featured on holiday gift guides is an even more intriguing activity that remains challenging for business founders.
Let's face this—many business owners have amazing products!
However, these same people don't often get the recognition and authority they deserve on gift guides simply because they have not really connected with the audience of their products.
Now, what does connecting with your audience have to do with getting your products featured on holiday gift guides?
This calls you to do these two significant activities— first, finding the relevance of your product to the season and the market, and finally, pitching before the right publications.
As the adage goes, 'there's a reason for every season,' and the same applies to your products. There are compelling stories and benefits behind them, so use that!
And with your products' message, you have to pitch before the editors of the publications that feature gift guides. In that way, you give yourself the opportunity to have your target audience remember your product.
The best part of doing these activities is that you can potentially receive your return on investment without spending any cash.
At the same time, you continue to build your authority in your industry.
That sounds like a win for you already!
By now, I'm sure you've found more reasons to be excited about this episode. But the best reason to be hyped for this episode is that we have Jessica Toscano, a journalist, and business founder, back on the podcast this time to share with us the best actions you can take to make this the best holiday for your business.
"It doesn't matter where you are in the process, as long as you have a clear message and you believe in yourself, go on. Send those emails. The only thing that I will definitely suggest is rather than send to 20 million different publications, just to get in any gift guide, I would start off by targeting specific publications."
-Jessica Toscano
Jessica Toscano is a skilled content creator and editor with experience in print and digital media. She founded digital unisex lifestyle publication, IntrigueMag in 2014. She continues to serve as CEO and Editor-in-Chief. Additionally, her articles have been published in Cosmopolitan, Men's Health, SELF, SHAPE, SheKnows, InsideHook, Giddy, and Cliché, with branded content featured in a variety of outlets, including Buffalo News.
Continue discovering how to get featured on holiday gift guides with this special episode. Let's take a deep dive into finding the reason for every season for your products, so you can finally land that gift guide feature you genuinely deserve!
Topics We Cover in This Episode:
The distinct purposes of gift guides
Fitting your gift guide pitch in the publisher's timeline
How to find the right publication to feature your product
Insider tips and insights on pitching for a holiday gift guide
Finding the reasons in your product all season long
How affiliate links help your product get more visibility
If you want to land your first feature for free without any connections, I want to invite you to watch my PR Secrets Masterclass where I reveal the exact methods thousands of bootstrapping small businesses use to hack their own PR and go from unknown to being a credible and sought-after industry expert. Register now at www.gloriachou.com/masterclass.
Resources Mentioned:
Gloria Chou's Masterclass: PR Masterclass
Follow Jessica Toscano on Instagram: Jessica Toscano IG
Connect with Jessica Toscano on LinkedIn: Jessica Toscano
Follow Jessica Toscano on Twitter: @msjtoscano
Additional Resources:
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Here’s a glance at this episode…
[1:47] Gift guides encompass every holiday. So, it's not just focused on Christmas time. It could be for anything.
[3:39] You want to offer ample time for the editors to review your pitch, potentially test the product, and offer feedback as to whether or not they want to be able to feature it.
[8:06] If you're a brand who has an affiliate link attached now, by all means reach out to the publisher and say we've worked with you in the past. We just want to be able to share our affiliate links, so you can earn commission as an incentive to include our product.
[17:05] First sentence, introduce your product. Introduce your brand. Introduce whatever it is you're promoting. Keep it very short, very straight to the point. Bullet points are super, super helpful, but don't go too crazy. I would avoid like 20 bullet points.
[19:38] Everything is absolutely important. But for this purpose, you want to consider your overall goal. What is the angle of your story? So, your goal is to get into this gift guide. What kind of gift guide is it?
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Jessica Toscano 0:00
Yes, yes. Oh my goodness, yes. In addition to including the price point and where it can be purchased, you also want to mention if there are any upcoming sales. Because if I'm going to be publishing this, let's say two months from now, and there's going to be a sale two months from now, but there is not a sale currently, that's something that's super important to communicate.
Gloria Chou 0:20
Hey friends, I'm Gloria Chou, small business PR expert, award-winning pitch writer and your unofficial hype woman. Nothing makes me happier than seeing people get the recognition they deserve. And that starts with feeling more confident to go bigger with your message. So on this podcast, I will share with you the untraditional, yet proven strategies for PR marketing and creating more opportunity in your business. If you are ready to take control of your narrative and be your most unapologetic and confident self, you're in the right place. This is the Small Business PR podcast.
Gloria Chou 0:52
All right! Gift guides, product guides, best of lists. Every season, every quarter, there's going to be an opportunity for you to get your business or product in one of these. That's why I'm so excited for today's episode with the one and only Jessica Toscano. She is a founder and editor of her own magazine, IntrigueMag. But she is also a wellness journalist. She has written for Men's Health, SELF, SHAPE, Cosmopolitan, you name it. And she is here sharing all the deets about how to get into a gift guide. So welcome to the show again.
Jessica Toscano 1:23
I am so excited to be back here. Gloria, thank you so much!
Gloria Chou 1:27
So gift guides, product guides. When you think about that, I mean, I think of it as like the Holy Grail. Because on one hand, you're getting in front of your audience. You're getting directly to a consumer. You're saving thousandss of dollars on ads. My question is: is it only a Q4 like Christmas thing? Or am I thinking of it too narrowly?
Jessica Toscano 1:47
Absolutely not. Gift guides encompass every holiday. Okay, right now, Amazon Prime is huge. So publications everywhere promoting all of the deals that you can get on Amazon Prime, all of the amazing gifts catered specifically to wellness or specifically to sexual health or you name it. So it's not just focused on Christmas time. It could be for anything.
Gloria Chou 2:13
Yeah, I love that. I was kind of asking that rhetorically, but I'm so glad that you said that. I mean, there's a National Hot Sauce Day. There's a 'celebrate your singleness day.' There's a National Pet Day. So there's something for everyone. So can you tell me a little bit more about the landscape of gift guides? What are the different types of gift guides?
Jessica Toscano 2:32
Yeah. So you can do a product gift guide, which is probably honestly the most popular. That's what you're really going to see during the holiday season. November, December even a little bit in January. Definitely February. But getting into February a little bit more, you're also going to see promos. So for Intrigue, last February for Valentine's Day, we highlighted brands that were offering really amazing promos for Valentine's Day. So it really just depends on what's going on. But product gift guides are the most well- known by far other than sales.
Gloria Chou 3:10
Yeah, I mean, that's like straight directly into your customer. They see the thing. They're ready to buy. So I really think it's the best, especially if you have something that's perfect for a gift. So in terms of timeline, I think I get asked this all the time, what is the best time to send the pitch out for inclusion in a gift guide?
Jessica Toscano 3:30
So it depends on whether you're targeting a print publication or a digital publication. Print publications typically work four to six months in advance, and you want to offer ample time for the editors to review your pitch, potentially test the product, and offer feedback as to whether or not they want to be able to feature it. If you want to follow up, that's something you also have to take into consideration. So if you're looking to focus on Christmas time, for example, you know, November, December, you want to start pitching that right away. So May, June, July right now, I wouldn't go any later than July. But that's just an example. I would say definitely six months in advance to play it safe. Now, digital is a little bit more immediate. So it's a bit different. You're gonna want to reach out to editors, I would say August, September if you're looking to get into a November-December gift guide. So a couple of months is plenty of time for an editor to review your pitch, test the product, and then be able to turn that into an already published article.
Gloria Chou 4:36
I really love digital. I think because now with the world of SEO, with the fact that it's searchable, most of my audience, I'm thinking, they're trying to get into digital. I actually just interviewed someone as well from Forbes and they say that sometimes they're looking for last-minute gift guide ideas. We've all clicked on those like last-minute kind of things, and she says that she puts those gift guides together sometimes even two weeks before she sends them out. Would you say that there's always kind of a room for like, last-minute people?
Jessica Toscano 5:04
So yes, absolutely. I can't say that I haven't done that. But I try really hard not to, or I try to have the bulk of the gift guide together. And if I am able to squeeze in a product here in their last minute, I'll do that. But for the most part, I would recommend if you really want to impress your client, and you want to get their product into a gift guide, especially their target publication, don't pitch the editor two weeks before she's planning on publishing.
Gloria Chou 5:34
Yeah. So you don't have to convince me about the gift guides. I know that this is definitely something that's so important. But let's say someone has something that's not a traditional gift. It's not a physical product. It's not a candle. How would you still encourage them to consider pitching for a gift guide?
Jessica Toscano 5:50
Oh, my gosh, yeah. So there are gift guides where you're promoting, not necessarily a package deal, per se, but for example, like a subscription to an app. And you can promote that the same way that you would promote a product. I would just recommend for an app, for example, offer the editor a free trial. Let him or her or they play around with it and see if they like it, and what the benefits are, what the cons are. If there are any cons and go from there, and how they're able to highlight it,
Gloria Chou 6:23
Subscription for an app, I love that. Now with the way that products are, there's memberships, subscriptions, digital experiences. There is a need. There is a want. So I definitely encourage everyone to think outside of the box, even if your product doesn't fit inside of box. So, before we got on here, we talked a little bit about the different types or the structures of how the payment or like affiliate links are just completely free editorial placements with no strings attached. Can you go into a little bit about let's say, I pitch something right? So what are the kind of possible outcomes in terms of me having that relationship with the outlet?
Jessica Toscano 7:02
Sure. One thing that you're definitely going to want to do, especially if you already have a relationship with the publication is if the brand has been featured in the publication before, mention that. If the brand now has an affiliate link that the publisher is able to utilize and place on their digital publication. Just to segue into this a little bit, for those of you who don't know what an affiliate link is, if you've ever been on a gift guide, and you saw a little tab at the top that was like, 'Hey, just so you know, we might earn commission from some of the links that you click on.' That's an affiliate link. You are purchasing the product, same price as you would normally purchase it unless the publisher is able to offer you a discount of sorts, and the publisher is just making commission from the brand on that product. Now, that doesn't mean that the product is any less valuable. It doesn't mean that we're choosing products that we don't think our readers will absolutely love or that we wouldn't use ourselves. It's just a way for us to also make money. That being said, if you're a brand who has an affiliate link attached now, by all means reach out to the publisher and say we've worked with you in the past. We just want to be able to share our affiliate links, so you can earn commission as an incentive to include our product, maybe a little bit more frequently, not just in this gift guide, but future gift guides.
Gloria Chou 8:28
Wow. So would you actually recommend someone if they are down for this kind of affiliate structure? Which is quite common to actually put that in their first pitch because I always think of sending a sample. So it'd be like, 'here's a sample, and we're happy to give you an affiliate link.'
Jessica Toscano 8:44
What a lot of PR reps actually do, and I love this, is after they're done with their pitch, at the bottom of their pitch, after they express what the product is, or what the promo is, they say affiliate links. And they have links to SkimLinks or ShareASale. Those are some of the most popular links to include. That's super helpful to know because if I do decide to include that product, then one, I'm going to include that link, because why not? We want to earn money. And two, it might help me publish the product a little bit higher up on the list. That way we are promoting a product that we love and we're more likely to receive commission off of it.
Gloria Chou 9:28
Yeah, that's true. But in terms of let's say, if it's a big magazine, and it's not the writer who's actually receiving the commission, obviously you write your own magazine, so that's different. You're the CEO, would you say that if it was for huge magazine, like Cosmo or Allure, for millions of readers? Do you think it's less of an incentive because the journalist probably is not going to get the commission themselves?
Jessica Toscano 9:48
I wouldn't say it's less of an incentive. I believe that if the brand has been working with that publication for a long time, and it's a brand that is consistently being published because it's a fantasy brand with amazing products. And it's really on target for readers and the publication is seeing that readers are really loving this brand, and they're really identifying with it. That alone is incentive for the editor to place the product higher up on the list.
Gloria Chou 10:15
Yeah. Okay, well, I can definitely see the for something like Chanel or a Tom Ford or something that just has a lot of volume. But let's just like step back a little bit because 90% of my audience, they've maybe never gone to a gift guide, or they're just launched. They're building something in their garage. So do you have any tips for them at that really early stage of their product, when they're like barely hitting the send button?
Jessica Toscano 10:40
Yes, absolutely. So definitely highlight your product, how you would any other for any other guide. So it doesn't have to be a gift guide. But for this particular instance, just make sure you're sticking straight to the point, eight to ten sentences, being concise. Any sort of hyperlinks that you can include. Any sort of talking points that you can include. And then if you are able to include an affiliate link of sorts, say you're not part of SkimLinks, or you're not a part of this ShareASale. Sure, you can definitely place your product on Amazon or find another big website like Amazon and say to the editor, 'Hey, just so you know, our product is available on Amazon if you want to use that as an opportunity for an affiliate link.'
Gloria Chou 11:27
What about if they don't have an affiliate link? They're just getting started, but they have samples? How can they leave that in there?
Jessica Toscano 11:33
Oh, I honestly would just mentioned putting that, honestly, straight off the bat, you can put that in one of the first few sentences. You can put it as one of your closing sentences and just say, 'hey, I'm super happy to offer samples for you to be able to test the product for yourself.' That is usually like a huge talking point for editors because we don't want to promote anything that we haven't actually tested for ourselves.
Gloria Chou 11:58
What if it's something that's very expensive? Let's say if it's a 24-karat gold skin facial tool. Is there a way? How can they still give you the experience of the product? Can it be through customer testimonials? Or do they, what's another way around that?
Jessica Toscano 12:14
One of the first things that I would suggest, if you're able to and a lot of gyms, for example, do this. They're not necessarily going to send you a $2,000 piece of equipment for you to test at your house or for you to hold on to. They'll offer you a free trial at a gym or a local gym and say, 'Hey, our product is there. Feel free to test it there. So if you're able to do something like that, that's one way to go about that. Another way to go about it is, if you're able to offer something in its place, say I had a company reach out about a mattress and I'm not going to be sent a mattress that's like $1,500 to test. But they offered to send me something else to show what their brand was like just to give me an idea of the value of their brand and the luxuriousness of it. I was able to test out their sheets, and that was like, 'Okay, so if their sheets are like this, then I have a better idea of what the mattress might feel like.' Any sort of way that you can kind of offer the experience without actually offering up the tool itself or the product itself because it's so expensive. That would be my first recommendation.
Gloria Chou 13:26
I love that. Thank you so much for that. Now obviously and another thing is you have to ask because that's just another way for them to either respond with a yes or no. So I think it's like, if you can offer it, say yes. If not, I also heard of someone saying that maybe you have a really good video that you made that gives people the experience visually. Would that also be something that that they can do?
Jessica Toscano 13:49
Oh, absolutely. There was this. I can't think of the name of it, and I can picture the bottle in my head. But there is this perfume. I think it's called Black Ox if I'm not mistaken. A couple years back, and they ended up mailing out instead of the perfume bottle itself. I believe they mailed out like little invitations to experience like the website as a whole. And I know a lot of perfume companies are doing things like that. They're offering like visual experiences, and that's promoting a lot of their products and encouraging a lot of people to buy their products without firsthand testing, which is just really unique and really awesome.
Gloria Chou 14:31
Now with an iPhone, anyone can be a videographer, cinematographer. It doesn't have to be this HD camera with a director. It could just be like creative storytelling.
Jessica Toscano 14:40
Absolutely. Yes.
Gloria Chou 14:42
So do we need to be I mean, I know the answer to this, but the first one is do we need to be an established brand that's making lots of revenue, that's pushing a lot of product to get featured? Or can it be literally be like we just launched and I want to get into a gift guide?
Jessica Toscano 15:00
No, absolutely just launched, it doesn't matter where you are in the process, as long as you have a clear message, and you believe in yourself, go on send those emails. The only thing that I will definitely suggest is rather than send to 20 million different publications, just to get in any gift guide, I would start off by targeting specific publications, publications who share a similar target audience, for example, or publications who are promoting similar products. If you're in the wellness industry, then consider SELF magazine, Health, other brands that focus specifically on wellness. Just because you'll be putting in the effort and you'll have a better turnout than say, if you're a wellness brand who's trying to get your product in a tech publication.
Gloria Chou 15:54
Yeah. I also think it's important to do the research because, I think a lot of times people don't know what to lead with, but their product might be good for vegan people, but also moms. So like, obviously, the pitch for the mom magazine might be different than like the eco-sustainability angle.
Jessica Toscano 16:09
Absolutely. Yes.
Gloria Chou 16:10
Yeah. Do you have any other pitching tips? So let's get into the actual messaging. I teach the CPR method. It stands for credibility, point of view, and relevance. I like bullet points. I like short sentences. You said yourself, make the pitch seven to eight sentences. Can you just give me an idea just like what the email structure would look like that is a good enough pitch?
Jessica Toscano 16:30
Yeah, so let's start off with the subject. I would definitely include Holiday gift guide, Valentine's Day gift guide, whatever the pitch is going to be and gift guide in the subject. That way, maybe it's not right for me right now. But when I am doing a gift guide for Valentine's Day, or I am doing a gift guide for the holidays, I can put that into my search bar in my email, and I can easily find you. So that said, let's move on to the pitch itself. No flowery writing. You just want to get right into it. So immediately, first sentence, introduce your product. Introduce your brand. Introduce whatever it is you're promoting. Keep it very short, very straight to the point. Bullet points are super, super helpful, but don't go too crazy. I would avoid like 20 bullet points. Your product's amazing, great. Highlight what you can in like, six to eight lines if you need to. Also definitely not a fan of any sort of like bulky attachments, or huge photos. If you want to include a photo, that's awesome, I would definitely recommend hyperlinking any chance you can. So you can hyperlink straight to the product website, the brand's website, and you can also include a Dropbox hyperlink to photos. That's probably, in my opinion, the best thing you can do, especially if you're promoting multiple brands in one email.
Gloria Chou 17:56
I love that you're validating everything that I say. But I have a question. What if it's something that's super visual, like let's say, if it's a painting, or if it's like something that you need to attach a photo? Do you think you should not copy it onto the email? you still don't recommend that?
Jessica Toscano 18:10
I'm not against attachments. I'm against multiple attachments, bulky attachments. I've had pitches that are filled to death with photos and I can't even find the pitch because the photos are just, they're lagging my computer. They're taking forever to load. So I would just recommend if you're going to attach something, keep it minimal. And if you can hyperlink it, I would rather somebody say, 'Hey, here's a video to X, Y, and Z, and then I click on the video for the the experience rather than the video being included in the email itself.
Gloria Chou 18:43
Oh, I love that. Okay, another thing is, what about the price point and where they can get it? Should they put all of that in there?
Jessica Toscano 18:50
Yes, yes. Oh my goodness, yes. In addition to including the price point and where it can be purchased, you also want to mention if there are any upcoming sales. Because if I'm going to be publishing this, let's say two months from now, and there's going to be a sale two months from now, but there is not a sale currently, that's something that's super important to communicate that way we know okay, this is going to be on sale, we're going to want to highlight that. It's definitely all important.
Gloria Chou 19:17
Now you said introduce the brand. Introduce yourself. As a founder, we think everything's important. We think our 60- page autobiography we want to put in there. So how can you help a founder figure out what is the most relevant and interesting point that separates their facial wash or their bath bomb from someone else's?
Jessica Toscano 19:38
I love that question. So you're right. Everything is absolutely important. But for this purpose, you want to consider your overall goal. What is the angle of your story? So your goal is to get into this gift guide. And what kind of gift guide is it? Let's, for argument's sake, say it's Valentine's Day and you're pitching to this person. Big publication because it's a wellness publication. You have a wellness product. Maybe they're doing a vegan gift guide. Okay, so that's something you want to highlight. So you want to introduce your brand as maybe you're the only vegan body wash on the market currently. That's super important. Any sort of piece of information that's vital to include for that angle, and that's going to also make your product stand out, or your brand standout, or your source standout whatever you're highlighting, then, yeah, include that information.
Gloria Chou 20:35
Yeah, I love that. Because as founders, we might have four or five or 40 products. A lot of times I get asked, 'Which one should I pick?' I always say, what is the relevance? What is the season? So my Valentine's Day gift guide, I might pitch something different than a Mother's Day or a graduation back to school, right?
Jessica Toscano 20:57
Yes, so I actually worked with this brand last year, and I promoted. They were dark chocolate, peppermint almonds. Now, I know the brand also does other really awesome almond flavors. For example, in the summertime, they'll promote their pink lemonade flavored almonds. But you kind of see what I did there. Peppermint for wintertime, because peppermint is associated with winter season. Then pink lemonade. Everybody's thinking about making lemonade or drinking lemonade in the summertime. So that's something you're going to want to stick to for a summer gift guide.
Gloria Chou 21:30
I just had so many light bulbs go off because I would have never thought about that in terms of almonds. It's all about your perspective, and the more you shift your mindset, the more you realize there's a season to pitch anything. So I love that. Give me some more examples of outside of the box things that you can pitch because I think for a lot of founders, they're looking at their products, and they're like, this just doesn't fit. This just doesn't fit. So give me some interesting creative things that you've gotten pitched that was like, 'Oh, this is really cool.'
Jessica Toscano 22:02
Oh my gosh. So I actually was reached out to about sustainable toothbrushes last, I believe, it was last summer season. The reason why they were able to promote it initially in the summertime is because they made the toothbrushes pastel colors. They were highlighting the fact that these are pastel. This is perfect for the summer. This is perfect for the spring. This is a great Easter present. And then they repackaged it into Christmas-themed packaging, and made it a bundle for Christmas time. The same pastel toothbrushes are now suddenly perfect for the Christmas and Hanukkah and all those type of holidays because they're packaged differently. Literally it's the same toothbrushes, but different packaging. So that's one product, two different angles. You just have to figure out how to work with what you have.
Gloria Chou 22:54
Oh, I love that. So be adaptable. Be evolving. There's a season for everything. Are there any other best practices or do's and don'ts that we haven't covered yet?
Jessica Toscano 23:02
I think everything we talked about is pretty much the gist of it. The only other thing that I would suggest is keep again in mind who your target audience is for your product because you really want to identify with the brand that you're pitching to. That is a huge selling point. So if your product is being targeted, you mentioned earlier moms, then you're going to want to reach out to mom publications. Those are going to be your best bet. That doesn't mean that you can't use another angle for another publication. But that's probably going to be your strongest talking point and your top publication to pitch to just based off of the fact that it's geared toward moms or it's a product that's geared toward parenting.
Gloria Chou 23:47
Yeah, and I love what you said about relevance. I actually think you if I were to look at it kind of chronologically, the first step would be like the holiday, whatever holiday or season we're in. The second one is pick the relevantoutlets and then after that, pick the three or four reasons why this product will be great for this season. That'll definitely get get the juices going. That's kind of like easy stuff 1,2,.3. One thing I forgot to ask that people always get so afraid of is follow-up. Now I'm all about following-up because journalists are busy. You get so many emails. Do you have anything to say to our audiences about proper follow-up etiquette?
Jessica Toscano 24:26
Yes, so always definitely follow up. I know a lot of other editors are guilty of this. I'm guilty of this. We open the email or we pass through it and we're like, 'Oh, heywe're gonna get back to this in a second or we're gonna get back to this closer toour deadline for that holiday gift guide or whatever the case may be.' Then we never get back to it because other things pop up. We get busy. We get more emails that happens. So definitely follow up. I would say your safest bet is following up within a two week period, unless it's a pressing topic. If this is something that you need to follow up with within a week or within a couple of days, then do that. I just wouldn't follow-up the next day or the day after if you don't absolutely have to. I would also, maybe mention in the subject that it's a follow-up email. In your next email, you don't have to include all of the same information as well because it's a follow up email. But I would go back to your original email to send the follow up email if that makes sense. That way, you have that information in there. You don't have to reiterate too much. You just have to check in with that editor and say, 'Hey, just wanted to check in to see if you'd be interested in featuring X,Y and Z in an upcoming gift guide about X, Y, and Z. More information below.
Gloria Chou 25:47
Love it.
Jessica Toscano 25:48
That's pretty much it straightforward.
Gloria Chou 25:51
Well, there you have it, folks. That's how it goes down. That's how actual gift guides gets made. Thank you so much for being here. I'm gonna look forward to not only what you include in Intrigue, but also what you're writing for the other publications as well. So how can people find you? How can people learn more about you?
Jessica Toscano 26:07
Yes, absolutely. So you can follow my story on social media. I have LinkedIn. I have Twitter, and Instagram @msjtocano. You can also find me via intriguemag.com. I have an author bio on there, and my email address jtoscano@intriguemag.com. Please feel free to reach out to me to say 'Hey, just send me pitches' or to tell me how much you love one of our gift guides.
Gloria Chou 26:31
Oh, I love that. Thank you for opening up the door for allowing people to pitch you. So hopefully, if anyone's listening to this while multi-tasking, you're gonna want to come back and replay this episode, maybe take some notes, so that way you can pitch to our very own Jessica Toscano. So, thank you so much for being on the show.
Jessica Toscano 26:46
Gloria, thank you. It's been a pleasure again.
Gloria Chou 26:49
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