00:00:00 Gloria: What’s up, small business heroes? Welcome back to Small Business PR, where we make marketing and PR super accessible for the everyday underdog. So today we have our very special guest, Meaghan Murphy. You might have seen her on all the places. She is an author. She’s an amazing mom. She is also an East Coaster like me. You’ve probably seen her on TV segments, and she’s also an on-air personality. And she’s going to dive into all the things that she’s looking for to cover because she has had quite the experience in media. So welcome to the show. 

00:00:26 Meaghan: Yay. Thank you for having me. 

00:00:28 Gloria: So Meaghan, you’ve done so many things in your lifetime. Can you just tell us a little bit about all the places that you’ve written for, that you’ve been featured on? This is quite extensive. 

00:00:36 Meaghan: Sure. So I have been in the magazine world for nearly 30 years. I had my first job at YM Magazine. I was one of the founding editors of Teen People Magazine. I went on to do many years at Cosmopolitan Magazine, then Self Magazine. I was the executive editor of Good Housekeeping for eight years, and I’ve been the editor-in-chief of Woman’s Day for four years now. My background is in acting, so I was an on-air personality on MTV in the 90s. I did commercials off-Broadway. I studied acting at Mason Gross School of the Arts at Rutgers. 

00:01:10 Meaghan: And so I’ve also been an on-air personality on Today Show, Live with Kelly and Regis, then Live with Kelly and Michael, then Live with Kelly and Ryan, then Live with Kelly and Mark for 20 years. People always say, oh, you’re a natural. And it’s like, no, actually, my degree’s in acting. But I have done morning television for many years. I’m also the host of a new reality show called My Perfect Day with Woman’s Day that streams on the very local network. I have a bestselling book called Your Fully Charged Life with Penguin Random House that came out hardcover three years ago, paperback two years ago. It’s now translated into three languages, and I am the voice of The Audible. I also do a lot of public speaking, and I had a podcast for three years. 

00:01:54 Gloria: Ooh, that’s amazing. That’s quite a resume. So you’ve been in the media for so long. I want to talk about all the changes that you’ve been seeing. But I guess my first question to you is, you know, you’ve done the podcast, you’ve done print, digital, now with influencers and AI and affiliate marketing, how have you seen the media landscape changing, and specifically in terms of shopping and gift guides? 

00:02:14 Meaghan: Sure. I mean, it’s changed wildly. When I first started my career, it was like, editors, who I like to think of as the OG influencers, were the only ones that had access to what was new and next, right? Like, what came across our desks was like, the only access anybody had to anything, right? Because there was no social media. There was barely even Facebook back in the day day, right? So it was like, editors got to decide what we were going to buy. [stumbles] What was in a magazine was what was literally shoppable unless it was like on the end cap at a department store. 

00:02:50 Gloria: That has changed dramatically, right? Because with social media, everybody has instant access to everything and now there’s obviously such an emphasis on affiliate revenue and skim links and partnerships and a lot of it is pay for play. So it becomes harder to discern what’s actually worth your money, what people actually love, what people really use, and adore in real life. And it’s harder to cut through the clutter, because there’s just more, more, more at our fingertips at all times. 

00:03:23 Gloria: Yeah, I think what you said about the affiliate and pay to play, as your margins get thinner, we know that like newsrooms now, you know, it’s really hard. A lot of people are freelancing. And that’s actually a question I get a lot, which is like, it’s really hard for me to navigate what is earned PR and what is just pay to play. And I always say it’s so much better for us to learn as business owners how to get that earned PR than pay to play. I mean, would you agree with that? 

00:03:44 Meaghan: I mean, I think like pay to play, especially for small business owners should be a last resort. Right? 

00:03:51 Gloria: Why do you think that? 

00:03:52 Meaghan: Because like, what’s the ROI? Like, you know, I mean, I think like building relationships, and telling stories around your products, and like, establishing a reputation of trust and respect and use is like way more important than like, throwing some money at a, you know, in the early stages, versus like testing the waters, building a relationship with your customer, building a relationship with your audience, earning trust. And maybe down the line, then you do some pay to play. But I think it’s important to build trust and respect, and try to get that… your products out there in a grassroots way first. 

00:04:32 Gloria: Yeah. And I always say, like, you know when you see someone’s Instagram account, and you know they bought the followers. Right? It just gives me such… it just gives me like the ick. And also, like, oh, I’ve been featured in this magazine as some random 40 under 40. And you know it was was paid. So it gets really difficult for what you do and what I do because– 

00:04:50 Meaghan: People can buy blue checks now, too. That is so annoying to me. 

00:04:54 Gloria: I love that you said that. Because so many times people are like, well, you’re in PR, like, why don’t you have a verified checkmark? And it’s like, that’s actually my stance to be anti-pay to play. Because if anyone can buy a check– 

00:05:04 Meaghan: [crosstalk] …like years and years ago, and it was like hard. And now I’m like, wait a second, people can buy that. I’m like, you know, that’s crazy to me. 

00:05:13 Gloria: It’s crazy. So I think I think there’s such a benefit and value to earned editorial, even though it’s getting smaller and smaller, right? Because there’s some, but so I want to talk about that. Because we’re not talking about the pay to play, which you can do if you want. I don’t [inaudible] with it, because then your people know that it’s advertising, it actually says [stammers] advertising. And so that editorial, which so few business owners feel like they can do, because there’s such a gatekeep thing from PR agencies. So can you tell me why it’s so important for indie brands and, you know, women founders to pitch you and that you’re not just, you know, the spokesperson for big brands? 

00:05:47 Meaghan: Sure. Well, I think here’s the thing. So magazines, we used to make 12 issues a year. Now most of us make eight, six issues a year. So everything is very, very highly curated. And I have to tell you, anytime someone sees their product, their story told in print, it is incredibly meaningful and it feels really important. There is nothing like touching a paper placement in a glossy magazine that you can put on your coffee table that you can share with your customers. That is meaningful. 

00:06:23 Meaghan: And I think now more than ever, those mentions hold a lot of value and weight because they’re fewer and far between. Right? You make my yay list on my editor’s letter, you can bet that that is something that I legitimately love because I only get six of those chances a year, six of those pages with three items. So there’s 18 things that I can say made me say yay in a calendar year of issues. So if you make my yay list, you better believe that that is something that I really stand for and I love and that I’m excited about. 

00:06:56 Gloria: That’s actually a good point. I actually talk a lot about digital ones because I always talk about the SEO. And so I think although [stumbles] print, like you said, it’s very valuable, it kind of loses that SEO factor, right? So do you think there is also a lot of benefit to just only focusing on the digital ones, which there’s a lot more opportunity for players? [overlap]

00:07:12 Meaghan: Well, listen, I think the digital landscape right now is a big, giant mess, right? I mean, like things around search are changing dramatically. Facebook, Facebook traffic, Facebook referrals, that is all changing dramatically. I mean, everything is changing so dramatically. I think a digital placement is wonderful, right? Like you’re still getting your message out there. But at the end of the day, when I talk to a business owner who’s been featured in a glossy magazine and can… as seen in Woman’s Day on their website or in their profile or in their sm– store, that’s a really big deal. 

00:07:49 Gloria: Yeah, we actually had a couple founders get featured in Women’s Day as well. So I want to thank you for featuring indie brands who, you know, sometimes it’s the first business that they’ve launched that’s product, and they didn’t have any PR person represent them. So I want to talk about PR because my whole thing is like disrupting the [stammers] traditional model. And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having a PR agency, but it’s not really accessible for the everyday business makers. 

00:08:12 Gloria: So for me, we have a lot of candle makers, a lot of cosmetics, and kind of a lot of these women are solopreneurs making incredible products. So what do you have to say in terms of like, what really gets your attention? And do they need to have like influencer, like a fancy website? How can they cut through the noise and actually get you to pay attention? 

00:08:28 Meaghan: So for me, so something fun to know about me is that I was named chief spirit officer of my small town by the mayor. I run the social media for my town and I call it Bestfield instead of Westfield because I am a champion of small business and a champion of small town living. I think everyone should live where they live and shop local. I love small business. I love female founders. I love big ideas from small companies. That is very exciting to me. 

00:08:58 Meaghan: I have traditionally done the international women’s day segments on today’s show shopping female founded companies. I have done small business Saturday segments pretty regularly over the past many years. I’m sort of known within media circles for being a champion of small business. That is really important to me. And a big piece of that is I don’t care so much about products as the people behind the products. 

00:09:26 Meaghan: So I very much love a story. I love the passion that went into creating this business. I love the idea behind having to create this business because if you create a business, it’s because you have to not because you want to. That’s what successful business owners have that like innate drive of I had to do this thing. I had to bring this idea to fruition. I love spotlighting those people, sharing their stories, celebrating their products. And that’s something I’ve been very passionate about for a number of years now. 

00:10:01 Meaghan: I think social media has done something really, really exciting. And that has given small business owners access to the media in a way that was not possible 10 years ago. Right. So like I’m the editor in chief of a magazine and a regular on the Today Show. You don’t have to like try to find my email address from some weird list or like try to… like you can go on my social media, you can interact with me, you can send me a DM in a way that was not possible 10 years ago. 

00:10:36 Meaghan: But that needs to be thoughtful. And this is something I say to business owners all the time. Pitching yourself is like dating. And I’m not talking about speed dating. Don’t come in for a French kiss when you haven’t even said good morning. Right? Like I think that is something that people don’t realize like, there’s a dance to this. You have to create a relationship with the person that you are trying to get their attention. 

00:11:03 Meaghan: So a way to do that is really follow me on Instagram, comment on some of my posts, comment on my segments in an authentic way. You know, read Woman’s Day magazine, follow that social media, see what we’re covering, what we’re talking about, what we’re interested in. And so then when you go in for the kiss, there’s there’s some like history behind it. We’ve been dating, right? Like your name is familiar. I’ve seen you pop up in my [stumbles] comments. I know that you’re routinely following what I’m doing on the Today Show or in the magazine, or coming to my appearances or engaging in a real meaningful way. 

00:11:47 Meaghan: And then I’m going to even… I’m going to be more excited about celebrating you, celebrating your product. The worst thing in the world is when someone slides into my DMs with like a three paragraph pitch about why I should cover their product. I should do anything, right? Don’t tell me what I should do. Right? Like I find that aggressive. I have no relationship with you. I’ve never met you before. You just popped in here. You don’t even follow me. And now you’re asking me for something. You’re giving… there’s no value proposition in this. 

00:12:22 Meaghan: Like I’m just supposed to think your products great, but why? How are you servicing my audience? How are you making my life easier? You’re just giving me a three paragraph DM with demands, which is now stressing me out. 

00:12:38 Gloria: Yeah, I think the relationship thing is is huge. Because once, let’s say, if I build a relationship with you, and I’m a product makers, there’s no limit, right, to the amount of times that you could cover me or maybe introduce me to someone else. It’s not like a one and done. So I think cultivating that is huge, because then I can be on your Rolodex. And then you know, you can get get me to be featured. [overlap]

00:12:58 Meaghan: I think there’s something to this. Like, so, you know, if I cover your candle, I’m probably not going to cover your candle in print again. But if someone else is like, Oh, I need a… I need a women-owned small business for this, I’m probably going to recommend you or I’m going to think of you again. I mean, that’s the thing is we all kind of roll in small circles. And so like, it’s really about like networking. [stumbles] I absolutely might introduce you to somebody really important and special, and you just don’t know. But I think it’s coming out of place of like, always wondering what someone can do for me and sort of thinking about what can I do for them? How can I make this editor’s life easier? 

00:13:39 Meaghan: And another big piece of it is simply timing. Right? Like if you’re pitching me Halloween ideas, and I’m already doing Christmas gift guides, I don’t care. And I don’t care again, till next year. Right? Like, and right now, I’m in the thick of making Halloween costumes and Halloween crafts and Halloween DIYs. I’m not really listening to your holiday pitch. I’m just not because I’m too busy making costumes for my segment on Thursday. And then if you… you hound me and you hound me and you hound me and you hound me when I’ve said like, this is not on my radar right now. Now, like, you risk kind of being annoying.

00:14:22 Gloria: Yeah, I mean, it’s really important to pitch within the seasons. And so that’s why, you know, in our PR program, we always talk about how can we leave with that season. But here’s the thing, we don’t have a crystal ball to know what your editorial calendar is, right? We’re only guessing. So how can you help us make it so that it’s more of a fit and that we can maximize our chances of being relevant to you? Is it simply asking you what you’re covering? Is it simply just – 

00:14:43 Meaghan: That’s so annoying to me. Like those like, what are you working on right now? Do you want my to do list? Because I’m working on 932 things. Like you… That is very annoying because it creates more work for me. I don’t owe you a download of my calendar, right? Like I don’t want to go over my to do list or my wants or asks. Like that… I guess the bottom line is don’t give me any more work to do.

00:15:09 Meaghan: I mean, and then if you’re very familiar with a brand, like if you’re familiar with Woman’s Day, you know that there’s a couple of things. I do a yay list on my editor’s letter that is three product picks every month across any category. It could be food, it could be beauty, it could be home, it could be anything that made me say yay. So that is evergreen. That could always be pitched, right? 

00:15:33 Meaghan: But then there’s also Woman’s Day leans very heavily into National Days. We love things that are tied to say it’s National S’mores Day, and you have a S’mores candle. Okay, you know, hey, Meaghan, I know National S’mores Day is coming up. I have this candle that smells like a campfire. It’s going to make you so happy. Can I send you high res or something like that. Because then you’re like acknowledging that you know my magazine, you know we lean into National Days and you might have a good fit. Or you know that I love telling people’s stories. I love silver lining stories. I love give back stories. I love celebrating people of all ages and stages. I have this product. It was created by X woman and it gives back to X charity or she has this insane rags to riches story. You’re not going to believe it. Like she went from here to here and it’s like so inspiring. 

00:16:29 Meaghan: That’s the kind of stuff I want to know. And I also feel like you can do that very specifically because you could easily follow me on social media and say something like, hey, Meaghan, killed it on Today Show with Snoop Dogg. I can’t like… yay, yay, yay. I thought this could be a fit for that, right? Like a thoughtful pitch. Not with too many images so that it goes right to my spam and not too many paragraphs that I have to read and do a whole lot of work. But like a moment of connection and recognition because listen, magazine editors, TV hosts, all of it, like we have some ego. We want to see that you value our work and that you’re not just looking for that kind of press hit. Like we want to also stroke our ego a little bit. 

00:17:17 Meaghan: I love your magazine or I love it when you did this or this story really spoke to me. Like I know that people are sending out tons and tons and pitches. I want to know that this pitch was thoughtfully crafted just for me. I also get super annoyed when someone spells my name wrong or the name of my magazine wrong. That drives me crazy. I just push delete right away. If you spell Meaghan, M-E-G-A-N, if you spell Woman’s Day as Women’s Day, I’m not reading any further because to me that is a lack of respect and a lack of attention to detail. And I just don’t want to be bothered because I get hundreds and hundreds of pitches. 

00:17:58 Meaghan: So to stand out, I’m being brutally honest. Spell my name right. Spell the name of my publication right. Show that you’ve taken an interest in the content we create. I loved this digital article. Like if you’re ever doing an update of this, this could be a fit. Right? Like those things are very important to me. 

00:18:17 Gloria: Yeah, I love that. So I hope whoever’s listening taking notes because you’re hearing it straight, you know, from the person [stumbles] who decides. You’ve given us a lot of tactical things from the 10,000 foot level. Let’s talk about the actual email pitch. So subject line, body. I know you said don’t add too many attachments, one high res. Are there any do’s and don’ts to immediately grasp your attention other than [stutters] a thoughtful opening? 

00:18:38 Meaghan: I mean, I’ve gotten emails where it’s like, Dear X. And you’re like, Oh my goodness, this is absolutely a templated email that went out to 900 of my colleagues and delete, you know, so that’s… don’t make it a form email. Don’t make me realize that it went out to 15, 20 other editors. We all have egos, right? I want to feel like it’s tailored. I want to feel like it’s custom… customized to me. I want it to be very, very simple. Brevity is the soul of wit. I want to be able to see you pitch yourself in a very concise way that doesn’t make me work too hard. I don’t have a very big attention span, especially when it comes to emails. So it’s got to be quick. It’s got to be pithy. It’s got to get right to the point. And of course it has to have some kind of seasonality unless it’s truly an evergreen pitch. 

00:19:35 Gloria: Yeah. So let’s talk about pithy because I always say, right, it takes much more skill to write in less sentences. So let’s talk about that. What are some things that you just don’t want in the email that so many people try to stuff in the email that they can just… after listening to this, do not put it in the email? 

00:19:50 Meaghan: I mean, I want more of a to do versus a to don’t kind of girl. Like, I do think it’s important to focus on when you’re crafting this email, I think the biggest thing to ask yourself is why would someone care? Why does someone need this product? How does it benefit them? And craft it in a way like your audience is going to care because your audience needs this because your audience wants this because not like I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, right? Take yourself out of the equation a little bit and think about who you’re selling to. 

00:20:30 Meaghan: The who of the pitch is the most important to me. Is like beyond, I love a good founder story, but I also want to know why somebody needs this product now, why someone’s going to care about this story, this idea, this product right now. 

00:20:45 Gloria: Yeah. So what would the distribution be? Because they want to talk a little bit about themselves. You said story matters, but we also don’t want their autobiography. So what is the right way to include just enough about them that it’s not rambling on and on? 

00:20:57 Meaghan: Sure. I mean, it has to be quick. So what is the elevator pitch of your story? Like, so say you’ve overcome 932 obstacles. That’s my favorite number to use in examples. I always say 932. But like quick rags to riches story. Like I don’t want paragraphs and paragraphs and paragraphs that I have to wade through to get to the meat of your story. I mean, it could, it could be very quickly like I was impacted by X and it helped me to do Y and I’m so excited to share this product. But like really, really, really, really quick. 

00:21:35 Gloria: Like one sentence quick.

00:21:37 Meaghan: If you like, that’s impressive. Yeah. 

00:21:39 Gloria: Yeah. Yeah. We have someone who got featured. I [stumbles] was helping her. She is a Harlem real estate broker turned beauty founder. And that was what she put. 

00:21:47 Meaghan: That’s it. That’s all. Yeah. That’s all you really need. Right. Like I overcame X to do Y, right? Like, cause if I am intrigued, I’m going to ask 9,000 follow-up questions, but, but like, don’t give me any reason to not follow up. Right. Like if you, what was that? It’s like the date, it goes back to dating, you know, don’t give, nobody wants the cow to give the milk away for free or something like that. Right. Like you got like make people work for more information. Like it’s a bit of a tease.

00:22:20 Gloria: Yeah. Like, yeah, I like that you’re validating. Cause I actually teach a pitching method called my CPR pitching method and it’s credibility, point of view, and relevance. And I always say, start with the relevance and go into three dots, which is the point of view and then conclude with one sentence of credibility. So I love how you’re validating that because a lot of people think, well, I don’t have the credibility and I don’t have awards. I’ve never been seen anywhere. So I’m not going to pitch anymore. So how much does that matter? Like if they’ve been featured before, should you put that in there or not? 

00:22:48 Meaghan: I’m less interested, right? Because I’m also want to be the one who discovers you, you know, like I’m more interested that nobody knows this except me. Right. Like it’s that same ego of being a magazine editor or just picking products for a Today Show segment. I don’t want what was on GMA yesterday. 

00:23:09 Gloria: What if it was featured on Forbes or something like not a TV show? 

00:23:14 Meaghan: But then why do I need to put it in Woman’s Day? It’s already had its moment. Maybe I don’t care so much. 

00:23:20 Gloria: Okay. Yeah. Because some other editors say that, you know, they don’t mind if you put it, you know, that they’ve been featured. It just adds an extra layer of credibility. 

00:23:28 Meaghan: Yeah. It’s funny. That’s not super interesting to me. I like love, but I’m also somebody who really loves discovering new brands, new founders. Like I love being first. I’m somebody who’s like calling people and friends in different regions and being like, are there any makers that no one knows yet that I need to know? More like if one of my editors is like on a vacation and they stumble into this little pottery shop, can we be the first to cover the pottery? That That happened with Bella Joy Pottery on the Today Show. 

00:24:05 Meaghan: Somebody was on vacation, went into this like pottery, it was an actual pottery barn, a barn where they were making pottery, found this beautiful pottery. And we got to be the first to celebrate this female artisan on the Today Show and then in Woman’s Day. That’s like, to me, that’s like the joy in the job for me is really discovering things first. 

00:24:27 Gloria: I love that. And that’s why I had you on the podcast, because that’s really a true hallmark of being a champion for women’s businesses. And so we have a lot of artisans as well, who are really like they tapped into local communities and have women tribes making, you know, beautiful baskets. I mean, it just goes on and on. So I love what you said. I feel like, you know, again, please take notes as you’re listening to this. You’re giving us so many, so many good nuggets. You talked about one sentence intro. Don’t put in too much of your founder story. Reduce it to two sentences if you can. Don’t do blocks of paragraphs, high resolution photos. Is there anything else in the email that they should or shouldn’t do before we move on? 

00:25:03 Meaghan: I think a little bit it has to do with follow up. I sometimes get like aggressive follow up, like, I sent you this pitch on Tuesday and I haven’t heard back. So like sending me that response is not going to make me get back to you. Like, I don’t I really I’ll be like, or I get messages of like, this is my third time reaching out to you. I’m going to take it that you don’t want it. Blah, blah, blah. And you’re like… 

00:25:33 Gloria: Aggressive. 

00:25:34 Meaghan: I just haven’t gotten through my inbox, which has 1000 messages in it. But now I’m really going to find all your subsequent messages and just push delete, because that is weird. Like, I don’t want to be met with any type of expectation or aggression. 

00:25:51 Gloria: What’s the right way to follow up? 

00:25:53 Meaghan: If you hear crickets, maybe two weeks later, three weeks later, maybe give it a second try, but it needs to be well, well spaced. I generally try to respond to everybody. But if I don’t respond, it might be because I really didn’t like the picture. I really don’t like the product. Because like, if I, if I like the picture, I like the person, I will respond. And I will say like, I’m keeping you on my radar. I might not have a fit at this time. But I thought that was a great pitch. And I and I’m going to keep you in the back of my mind if I have a fit. 

00:26:31 Meaghan: And I have folders of like female founders, small business, like I do save. So that’s the other thing when I say timing is everything. Again, it’s like dating. You may hear from me six months later, because I’m going through my female founder folder for International Women’s Day. And now I have a fit where I didn’t when you messaged me, but like it’s a good quality pitch. I’m going to save it. 

00:26:59 Gloria: Yeah, I love that. And we don’t know if you’re saving it, right? Because you cannot respond to everybody. But I always say still put your name in the hat because you never know when it’s time and you’re going to go back to that, to that file. So what about following up gently in the DMs, whether it’s giving you, you know, telling you that, you know, we loved your segment. Is that okay as a follow up? 

00:27:18 Meaghan: I don’t mind that. But you also it’s one of those things too, is I get a lot of messages. I get a lot of DMs on Instagram. I find it really insulting if someone doesn’t follow you, but asks something of you. Like, I think there’s like, you know what I mean? It’s like, well, you don’t follow me. So that means you don’t aren’t interested in my content. So why are you pitching me? 

00:27:48 Gloria: Yep. I mean, that’s a minimum right there. And also spelling your name right and knowing where you work. 

00:27:51 Meaghan: But you wouldn’t you’d be so surprised by so many people that like they’re not engaging in your content. They don’t follow. They don’t follow your brands. They don’t engage with your content at all. But yet they want to be a part of your content strategy and your content output. But if you think… to me, that’s confusing. Because clearly, you don’t care about my content because you don’t engage with it. So if it’s not for you, then it’s not for you.

00:28:20 Gloria: Yeah, I agree. How much does like, fancy website, a high follower count or having a famous influencer? How much does that matter in terms of making the pitch more strong? 

00:28:29 Meaghan: Well, you know, listen, I think there’s so many influencers that hawk so many products, that like a one off placement with an influencer is meaningless. I think that there are certain genuine influencers have long standing relationships with products. And you’ll have… I think you’re going to engage with an influencer, I think it’s, it’s a six month arrangement, a one year engagement, like a long standing engagement versus like, I’m going to throw money at one reel, or one post or one set of stories, where I’m like, Okay, well, if I really care about this person, and I’m following this person engaging with this person, I know that they’ve never spoken of it again. I know I’ve never seen it before. Right? So I don’t think this is so genuine. 

00:29:23 Meaghan: And I think like spreading it out over a bunch of influencers is probably less impactful than if you have this small spend to spend it on one person who is so clearly in your target audience, your target demo, your target consumer, and showing a brand relationship over time, because everything is about trust. And I don’t trust one feed post or one reel from an influencer with a ton of followers who’s like, now buy this, tomorrow by that. 

00:29:58 Gloria: Yeah, I agree. And it’s that’s a whole another topic right there. We could get into it in another episode. What about their follower account, like how many followers they have or how fancy their website is? 

00:30:10 Meaghan: So I’m very much interested more in engagement. Like, do your followers engage with your content? Do they comment? Do they take action based on your content? Like, I mean, follower count, if I have 100,000 followers, but I follow 30,000 people that feels less meaningful than if I have 40,000 followers, and I follow 1000 people, and everybody’s like really liking and commenting and sharing the content, right? I think it’s about engagement over sheer number of followers. And I think to your point, you know, you can kind of tell which accounts really have an earned audience. And I mean, I guess people still do this where they pay for followers and thoughts and all of that crap. 

00:31:03 Gloria: Yeah, what about website? How many reviews? [overlap]

00:31:06 Meaghan: Here’s the thing is like, a website is important in the sense that if I’m going to put you on the Today Show for a small business segment, that is a national segment. People need to be able to shop your product, they need to be able to find out more about you. If I’m doing a segment and I’m mentioning six products, and you’re one of them, you’re only getting your 30 seconds or 40 seconds of airtime. People need to be able to then go to your website, and learn more and shop. So to that end, it is important to have an a landing page, a destination that validates your business and allows people to engage with them. 

00:31:46 Gloria: Yeah, so good. What about samples, offering samples? Do you even want samples? 

00:31:51 Meaghan: I I hate samples. Like, it’s just like more annoying to me than anything. Like, you know, we get so much mail and so many packages. And then it’s like, did you get this? Or did you get that? And it’s like, please, please never send anything without asking. Because I’m not going to get to it. And I’m probably just going to donate it. And I think many influencers, to that end are like, unless you’re paying me, don’t send me product. You know, like, they don’t want to be shipped endless product, unless you’re, you know, in a paid partnership. Because like, free stuff is free stuff. Like, I am not about free stuff. I don’t want anything. I’m a minimalist, and I purge everything. 

00:32:33 Gloria: So it’s enough for you to gauge whether or not you want to cover it just from the pitch. You don’t need to actually have a sample at all times. 

00:32:40 Meaghan: At that stage, right? Like, I’m have Nothing Bundt Cakes, the little buntinis in the issue. I like, definitely do want to taste them before I tell 1.4 million people to buy them. But like, I don’t want to taste them until like, I’ve ever I’ve, I like your pitch. I like your product, we’ve engaged, you sent me high res. Okay, now I’ll taste it. Like, I need to do my research and my… I need to like it. And then in many cases, I would want to sample. Like if I’m going to be talking about a shoe, I do want to make sure it’s actually comfortable, or that the fabric isn’t itchy, or that the lipstick doesn’t make me break out. So like, to that end. 

00:33:22 Meaghan: But just like, random sampling where products are coming in the mail to the office, and no one’s given me a heads up, I don’t I don’t want things that we have, we need to have a relationship before you start buying me gifts. Right? [crosstalk] 

00:33:38 Gloria: And it’s very out of context. Yeah. I’m like, Oh, like, especially with like, you know, I don’t know what’s in here. I don’t want to open it. So I totally love what you said. But it’s good to know that you do… If you are talking about it, you have vetted it and you have tried it only after you have already agreed that you’re interested in it. [overlap]

00:33:53 Meaghan: Yeah. I mean, a lot of things that I share are things that I just have loved over time. In my own life. I have three kids. I have a teenager. Like so you know, like, my kids are often like, Mom, you need to know this, you need to try this. Like you’re gonna love this. That’s another way to pitch to is understanding that, you know, how is it going to benefit somebody’s network? Like, Oh, I know you have kids, you need to know about this, right? Or I know your mom just turned 75. I thought she might love this. You know, I know you have celiac, this is gluten free, I thought you might want to try that. The more things are personalized, customized, benefit the audience and the and have like a heartstring for the editor, the better. 

00:34:42 Gloria: Yeah, exactly. So pitch pitch with context, relevance, be of service. Don’t say it’s all about me, me. Last thing I want to talk about is this landscape of affiliate marketing. And so I get this question a lot, which is, do I need to have an affiliate link? What does that look like? Is it a requirement? If so, how do I present that? 

00:35:00 Meaghan: So my thing is, like, if you’re if you’re a very small business, you probably can’t afford to do that. Target, Amazon, Walmart, you know, like, yes, okay, they can afford these affiliate partnerships. But if you’re a small little brand, you can’t afford that. And the other piece of it is, like, I always say this to people when I’m going to put them on the Today Show, you have to be ready for that level of sales, that level of attention. You have to be able to fulfill orders. I mean, it happens with Shark Tank all the time, where you get that too much attention too fast, you crash your website, you can’t deliver. And that tanks your business.

00:35:41 Meaghan: Like, you want to go at your own pace. You don’t want to go at somebody else’s pace. And you don’t want to rush success. You want to be very, like, mindful and calculated and baby step, you know, your way to success, because [stumbles] if it happens too fast, if we make friends, and I’m like falling in love your product, and I put on Today Show, and then your website crashes in three seconds, and you can’t fill a single order, what was the point of being on Today Show? 

00:36:11 Gloria: Yeah, yeah, that’s really, that’s really good point. I actually had someone in my program successfully like using a program and get pitched. And she, you know, got accepted by Good Morning America, but she was unable to fulfill because she had a perishable good. And it wasn’t able to be shipped across country. But I mean, she’s still doing really well. But it goes to show that like, yes, you do feature indie brands. No, you don’t need a PR agent. But you also need to do your due diligence. 

00:36:34 Meaghan: Because the Today Show is going to be there. Good Morning America is going to be there. You can’t, you don’t rush it. Because you want to be ready when it happens. Because the worst thing in the world is to not be able to fulfill orders. 

00:36:48 Gloria: Yeah, I love that so much. You’ve given us so much to think about. I mean, this is like a PR masterclass, really, the ins and outs, the stuff that you can’t Google, and you’ve given small business owners so much access by sharing your [stumbles] expertise. I want to know what are you… again, this question that you hate, but what are you looking for this season? So as at the time of recording, it’s mid-October. So Halloween gift guides, but thematically, like, what is trending for you? Is it sustainability? Is it… [stumbles] what kind of products and trends? 

00:37:19 Meaghan: You know, it’s funny. So my head has been all Halloween all the time because this is my biggest holiday and just in terms of my Today Show segments, and my Halloween costumes, and all the things. The soon as I put on my holiday hat, for me, it is very much a mix of unique finds, right? Because everyone’s doing gift guides. So I love things that feel unique. I love things that give back. I love things that have a backstory. I love things that are joyful and celebrate life, have a positive message, you know, and price point does matter, especially with gift guides.

00:38:00 Meaghan: Like, often for network television is $50 and under, you know, I mean, and a lot of times what we’ll do is we’ll say like, from $50, like the lowest price item in the collection is $50. And maybe it goes up to 500. But like, that’s a little way around it sometimes. But like, you know, mass America, mass media is budget friendly, budget conscious. And ways around that are discount codes. And you could give a little bit more leeway if there is a give back element. Everybody is very much excited about give back and give back messaging. 

00:38:38 Meaghan: But I, you know, like, I mean, themes beyond bows are really trending. Not so much, you know, I’m always really looking for unique, new, cool founder stories. I love to like, celebrate people of all ages and stages from across the country. That’s very exciting to me. 

00:38:59 Gloria: I love that. I love what you said about being under $50. What about consumer electronics? Because that could be probably, you know, higher than $50? 

00:39:06 Meaghan: Well, listen, I mean, I am recommending like the, you know, the Apple AirPods Max Pro 500 something dollar headphones on my gift guide. And that is a really high price point. It is the only thing my daughter wants for Christmas. I absolutely love them. And so on occasion, I will recommend a splurge like that, because they’re just so stinking great. But I mean, it can be challenging. 

00:39:34 Gloria: It’s a smaller pool. [overlap]

00:39:34 Meaghan: And I often position something like that. Like, okay, is this safe? You know, everybody’s going in on this gift for dad? Or everyone’s going in on this gift for mom? Is it like a… all the siblings are going in on this gift? Like, there’s way… group gifts and go, there’s ways to go around things like that. But like, just knowing, you know, who is your audience? Because if your price points are higher, it is not mass media.

00:40:03 Gloria: Yep, that’s so good. Is there anything you want to leave our audiences with who are just beginning this journey, they felt intimidated their whole lives, but you’ve obviously, you know, given them something to really take action on? 

00:40:15 Meaghan: You know, I think it’s, it’s really exciting. And I think a lot of small business owners wind up having some imposter syndrome. You know, comparison is absolutely the thief of joy. So don’t look at anyone else’s trajectory. Don’t look at anyone else’s press clippings or Instagram followers, and use that as a measure of your own success. Like this is your journey. And like, make it your journey. Stop looking around and look within. And the same passion that helped you launch this business is the same passion that’s going to help you launch this business. 

00:40:52 Gloria: Are you sure you’re not a small business coach? 

00:40:54 Meaghan: I know. I like, I am like, the biggest champion of small business. Like, that’s why they made me chief spirit officer of my town. I love small business. I probably should start a small business someday. Because I’m like, you got this. Chase that dream.

00:41:10 Gloria: I love that. And that’s exactly, you know, why I invited you because your energy is so in alignment. I want to thank you so much for your time. I know you’re busy, you’re getting ready for, you know, doing segments with celebrities and really cool things. How can people find you? I know you also have a book as well. How can people kind of get into your world? 

00:41:25 Meaghan: So I’m pretty busy on Instagram. I’m @meaghan, M-E-A-G-H-A-N, B. Murphy. My book is called Your Fully Charged Life. It’s available wherever books are sold. I’m also the Audible. Some people like audiobooks and like to walk or run or listen to me. It’s a happiness handbook so I kind of coach you through living with positivity and optimism and joy. And Woman’s Day magazine is available on newsstands and on womansday.com. 

00:41:55 Gloria: Thank you so much. 

00:41:57 Meaghan: Yay.

SNIPPETS:

Snippet 1:

Heading text on top of video: 

What the Editor in Chief of Women’s Day Magazine really wants to spotlight

00:08:28-10:01

Meaghan: So for me, so something fun to know about me is that I was named chief spirit officer of my small town by the mayor. I run the social media for my town and I call it Bestfield instead of Westfield because I am a champion of small business and a champion of small town living. I think everyone should live where they live and shop local. I love small businesses. I love female founders. I love big ideas from small companies. That is very exciting to me. I have traditionally done the international women’s day segments on today’s show shopping female founded companies. I have done small business Saturday segments pretty regularly over the past many years. I’m sort of known within media circles for being a champion of small business. That is really important to me. And a big piece of that is I don’t care so much about products as the people behind the products.  So I very much love a story. I love the passion that went into creating this business. I love the idea behind having to create this business because if you create a business, it’s because you have to, not because you want to. That’s what successful business owners have, that like innate drive of, I had to do this thing. I had to bring this idea to fruition. I love spotlighting those people, sharing their stories, celebrating their products. And that’s something I’ve been very passionate about for a number of years now. 

Snippet 2:

Heading text on top of video: 

Editor in Chief of Women’s Day Magazine says THIS type of pitch stresses her out

00:10:36-00:12:22 

Meaghan: But that needs to be thoughtful. And this is something I say to business owners all the time. Pitching yourself is like dating. And I’m not talking about speed dating. Don’t come in for a French kiss when you haven’t even said good morning. Right? Like I think that is something that people don’t realize like, there’s a dance to this. You have to create a relationship with the person that you are trying to get their attention. So a way to do that is really follow me on Instagram, comment on some of my posts, comment on my segments in an authentic way. You know, read Woman’s Day magazine, follow that social media, see what we’re covering, what we’re talking about, what we’re interested in. And so then when you go in for the kiss, there’s there’s some like history behind it. We’ve been dating, right? Like your name is familiar. I’ve seen you pop up in my [stumbles] comments. I know that you’re routinely following what I’m doing on the Today Show or in the magazine, or coming to my appearances or engaging in a real meaningful way. And then I’m going to even… I’m going to be more excited about celebrating you, celebrating your product. The worst thing in the world is when someone slides into my DMs with like a three paragraph pitch about why I should cover their product. I should do anything, right? Don’t tell me what I should do. Right? Like I find that aggressive. I have no relationship with you. I’ve never met you before. You just popped in here. You don’t even follow me. And now you’re asking me for something. You’re giving… there’s no value proposition in this. 

Snippet 3:

Heading text on top of video: 

Editor in Chief of Women’s Day Magazine gets brutally honest about what she needs in a pitch from you

00:17:58-19:35

So to stand out, I’m being brutally honest. Spell my name right. Spell the name of my publication right. Show that you’ve taken an interest in the content we create. I loved this digital article. Like if you’re ever doing an update of this, this could be a fit. Right? Like those things are very important to me. 

00:18:17 Gloria: Yeah, I love that. So I hope whoever’s listening taking notes because you’re hearing it straight, you know, from the person [stumbles] who decides. You’ve given us a lot of tactical things from the 10,000 foot level. Let’s talk about the actual email pitch. So subject line, body. I know you said don’t add too many attachments, one high res. Are there any do’s and don’ts to immediately grasp your attention other than [stutters] a thoughtful opening? 

00:18:38 Meaghan: I mean, I’ve gotten emails where it’s like, Dear X. And you’re like, Oh my goodness, this is absolutely a templated email that went out to 900 of my colleagues and delete, you know, so that’s… don’t make it a form email. Don’t make me realize that it went out to 15, 20 other editors. We all have egos, right? I want to feel like it’s tailored. I want to feel like it’s custom… customized to me. I want it to be very, very simple. Brevity is the soul of wit. I want to be able to see you pitch yourself in a very concise way that doesn’t make me work too hard. I don’t have a very big attention span, especially when it comes to emails. So it’s got to be quick. It’s got to be pithy. It’s got to get right to the point. And of course it has to have some kind of seasonality unless it’s truly an evergreen pitch. 

Snippet 4:

Heading text on top of video: Editor in CC Chief approved follow up strategy

00:25:03-26:59

Meaghan: I think a little bit it has to do with follow up. I sometimes get like aggressive follow up, like, I sent you this pitch on Tuesday and I haven’t heard back. So like sending me that response is not going to make me get back to you. Like, I don’t I really I’ll be like, or I get messages of like, this is my third time reaching out to you. I’m going to take it that you don’t want it. Blah, blah, blah. And you’re like… 

00:25:33 Gloria: Aggressive. 

I just haven’t gotten through my inbox, which has 1000 messages in it. But now I’m really going to find all your subsequent messages and just push delete, because that is weird. Like, I don’t want to be met with any type of expectation or aggression. 

00:25:51 Gloria: What’s the right way to follow up? 

00:25:53 Meaghan: If you hear crickets, maybe two weeks later, three weeks later, maybe give it a second try, but it needs to be well, well spaced. I generally try to respond to everybody. But if I don’t respond, it might be because I really didn’t like the picture. I really don’t like the product. Because like, if I, if I like the picture, I like the person, I will respond. And I will say like, I’m keeping you on my radar. I might not have a fit at this time. But I thought that was a great pitch. And I and I’m going to keep you in the back of my mind if I have a fit. 

00:26:31 Meaghan: And I have folders of like female founders, small business, like I do save. So that’s the other thing when I say timing is everything. Again, it’s like dating. You may hear from me six months later, because I’m going through my female founder folder for International Women’s Day. And now I have a fit where I didn’t when you messaged me, but like it’s a good quality pitch. I’m going to save it.